What's wrong in this picture ?
- Thread starter pilot602
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Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
IMC conditions.
IMC conditions.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
All the standby instruments are wayyyy over on the right...
That would suck unless you're the CFII!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
All the standby instruments are wayyyy over on the right...
That would suck unless you're the CFII!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
[ QUOTE ]
All the standby instruments are wayyyy over on the right...
That would suck unless you're the CFII!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Ding Ding Ding!
WTF is Mooney thinking? This panel is almost designed to induce spatial disorientation if/when the main MFDs go dead. And, btw, anyone knowthe FAA certification requirement for length of full operation of these panels if the electrical source is lost (i.e. how long do they have to run on batteries)?
Mel Carnahan (former governor of MO) died in a crash when they lost the gyroscopic instruments on the left side and the pilot (his son) was trying to fly off the AI on the right side of the aircraft (from the left seat), it was night, it was IMC and he got disoriented and .. BAM. One dead governor.
Seriously, WTF.
[ QUOTE ]
All the standby instruments are wayyyy over on the right...
That would suck unless you're the CFII!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Ding Ding Ding!
WTF is Mooney thinking? This panel is almost designed to induce spatial disorientation if/when the main MFDs go dead. And, btw, anyone knowthe FAA certification requirement for length of full operation of these panels if the electrical source is lost (i.e. how long do they have to run on batteries)?
Mel Carnahan (former governor of MO) died in a crash when they lost the gyroscopic instruments on the left side and the pilot (his son) was trying to fly off the AI on the right side of the aircraft (from the left seat), it was night, it was IMC and he got disoriented and .. BAM. One dead governor.
Seriously, WTF.
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
LOL. In the F-117 (arguably one of the worst ergonomically-designed planes, IMO) the standby AI is on the right side of the front panel, while the standby altimeter and airspeed indicator (as well as the standby ADI and standby HSI) are all located in a cluster on the extreme lower left of the front panel.
LOL. In the F-117 (arguably one of the worst ergonomically-designed planes, IMO) the standby AI is on the right side of the front panel, while the standby altimeter and airspeed indicator (as well as the standby ADI and standby HSI) are all located in a cluster on the extreme lower left of the front panel.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
[ QUOTE ]
Mel Carnahan (former governor of MO) died in a crash when they lost the gyroscopic instruments on the left side and the pilot (his son) was trying to fly off the AI on the right side of the aircraft (from the left seat), it was night, it was IMC and he got disoriented and .. BAM. One dead governor.
[/ QUOTE ]
This court case REALLY hit a sore spot with me, especially since it involved so many negligent lawsuits against the manufacturers over something the NTSB concluded was pilot error. The family just could not accept the fact that their beloved son screwed up, so it must be a fault in the design. The people that made the vaccum pumps are now out of that business, and the NTSB even specifically said in their report that BOTH pumps were working. It was the AI that failed. So, b/c of ignorance this company lost millions of dollars, and is now near bankruptcy. Don't get me wrong, it's sad and tragic that they lost family members. However, what was this guys THINKING? He ignored all of his instrument training and decided to LEAN over to read instruments instead of relying on his backups like the turn coordinator and compass.
Now, I have to agree with you here. What is Mooney thinking? At least Cirrus put the backups in between the MFDs.
[ QUOTE ]
Mel Carnahan (former governor of MO) died in a crash when they lost the gyroscopic instruments on the left side and the pilot (his son) was trying to fly off the AI on the right side of the aircraft (from the left seat), it was night, it was IMC and he got disoriented and .. BAM. One dead governor.
[/ QUOTE ]
This court case REALLY hit a sore spot with me, especially since it involved so many negligent lawsuits against the manufacturers over something the NTSB concluded was pilot error. The family just could not accept the fact that their beloved son screwed up, so it must be a fault in the design. The people that made the vaccum pumps are now out of that business, and the NTSB even specifically said in their report that BOTH pumps were working. It was the AI that failed. So, b/c of ignorance this company lost millions of dollars, and is now near bankruptcy. Don't get me wrong, it's sad and tragic that they lost family members. However, what was this guys THINKING? He ignored all of his instrument training and decided to LEAN over to read instruments instead of relying on his backups like the turn coordinator and compass.
Now, I have to agree with you here. What is Mooney thinking? At least Cirrus put the backups in between the MFDs.
sopdan
Well-Known Member
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
[ QUOTE ]
I can't see any of the writing well enough to tell- but is it possible that they flipped the negative? A reverse image, in other words.
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Everything else seems to be in the right place (throttle, mixture, circuit breakers, etc.) . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I was also going to say that if you were in IMC, your airspeed is 0 kts, which would also be a problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
[ QUOTE ]
I can't see any of the writing well enough to tell- but is it possible that they flipped the negative? A reverse image, in other words.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everything else seems to be in the right place (throttle, mixture, circuit breakers, etc.) . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I was also going to say that if you were in IMC, your airspeed is 0 kts, which would also be a problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF is Mooney thinking? This panel is almost designed to induce spatial disorientation if/when the main MFDs go dead.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe both screens can work as an PFD. Where else would you like them to put them?
[/ QUOTE ]
We're talking about the standby instruments (ASI, AI and Altimeter) on the FAR right of the panel.
I'm fully aware you can make the MFDs display whatever you like but if you lose electrical (the FARs only require the MFDs to run at full capacity for 30 minutes) you will lose both panels thus relegating you to the standby instruments "conveniently" located on the other side of the aircraft. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF is Mooney thinking? This panel is almost designed to induce spatial disorientation if/when the main MFDs go dead.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe both screens can work as an PFD. Where else would you like them to put them?
[/ QUOTE ]
We're talking about the standby instruments (ASI, AI and Altimeter) on the FAR right of the panel.
I'm fully aware you can make the MFDs display whatever you like but if you lose electrical (the FARs only require the MFDs to run at full capacity for 30 minutes) you will lose both panels thus relegating you to the standby instruments "conveniently" located on the other side of the aircraft. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
Where do I start. The Mooney has more avionics in it than most of the airliners flying today. I don't see it being that big of a problem. Any proficient instrumet pilot should be able to fly it safely off the standby's. The panel is missing a back up VOR/LOC. It would suck to lose the panel IMC and not be able to shoot the approach.
As far as the MFD's go at least they get backup power. If you were to lose the GEN"s in a Saab the Batts cannot power the displays and you are down to the small standbys...
Not fun but flyable.
Where do I start. The Mooney has more avionics in it than most of the airliners flying today. I don't see it being that big of a problem. Any proficient instrumet pilot should be able to fly it safely off the standby's. The panel is missing a back up VOR/LOC. It would suck to lose the panel IMC and not be able to shoot the approach.
As far as the MFD's go at least they get backup power. If you were to lose the GEN"s in a Saab the Batts cannot power the displays and you are down to the small standbys...
Not fun but flyable.
pilot602
If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
[ QUOTE ]
Any proficient instrumet pilot should be able to fly it safely off the standby's.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Carnahan's son was a "proficient' instrument pilot (well at least far more proficient thatn the averag GA pilot) and he's dead.
2) If it comes down to the point the standby insturments are needed "all those fancy avionics" are no longer operating and thus pointless.
I do agree with you about the standby VOR/LOC indicator. Non of these new GA "glass panel" layouts include this which is dumb IMHO.
All this comes down to is a little foresight. You'll notice there are switches in the upper left area of the pannel. Those could very easily be relocated and the standbys placed there.
And Iian ... have you ever shot an approach from the right seat using instruments on the left side? Not incredibly difficult but not incredibly fun either - now mic in the stress of a real partial panel situation, bad weather and thing can go badly very quickly.
[ QUOTE ]
Any proficient instrumet pilot should be able to fly it safely off the standby's.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) Carnahan's son was a "proficient' instrument pilot (well at least far more proficient thatn the averag GA pilot) and he's dead.
2) If it comes down to the point the standby insturments are needed "all those fancy avionics" are no longer operating and thus pointless.
I do agree with you about the standby VOR/LOC indicator. Non of these new GA "glass panel" layouts include this which is dumb IMHO.
All this comes down to is a little foresight. You'll notice there are switches in the upper left area of the pannel. Those could very easily be relocated and the standbys placed there.
And Iian ... have you ever shot an approach from the right seat using instruments on the left side? Not incredibly difficult but not incredibly fun either - now mic in the stress of a real partial panel situation, bad weather and thing can go badly very quickly.
RiddlePilot
New Member
Re: What\'s wrong in this picture ?
I really don't see a huge deal with this. Flying instruments from the opposite seat isn't really that difficult, just takes a little bit of getting used to. Also, seeing as how a pilot can keep positive control using the backup attitude indicator, a proficient instrument pilot should be able to keep it in the air long enough to find VMC and land safely. By the way...how are ya gonna have a backup CDI if you lost your electrical system? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'm pretty much repeating what was already said by a couple previous posters, but I'm just putting my opinion in the pool. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I really don't see a huge deal with this. Flying instruments from the opposite seat isn't really that difficult, just takes a little bit of getting used to. Also, seeing as how a pilot can keep positive control using the backup attitude indicator, a proficient instrument pilot should be able to keep it in the air long enough to find VMC and land safely. By the way...how are ya gonna have a backup CDI if you lost your electrical system? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'm pretty much repeating what was already said by a couple previous posters, but I'm just putting my opinion in the pool. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif