what's up with the hate?

Yesterday, at 13:58, at another thread, Cherokee Cruiser said:

"Yes, Jet U guarantees a job"

Today, he says:

"Jet U....provide a CRJ transition course, and that's ALL your money gets you"

Then he says:

"I thought you (DE727UPS) knew the differences between Gulfstream Academy (by a job), and Jet U...(buy a CRJ course, and only get an interview)"

So, is it my fault for being confused or my fault for ever listening to CC in the first place? Anyone else confused?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Don, no, Gulfstream you pay $30k to DIRECTLY sit in the right seat, and that is the ONLY source of F/Os for Gulfstream Airlines. Latest rumors have it they are now hiring street FOs because they don't have enough Academy F/Os.

Now that's different. Your $30k is used to directly pay for a job, bypassing an interview, and land yourself in the right seat.

Essentially, it's if you pay 30k, you buy the right seat directly from the airline for 250 hours. NO interviews, no nothing like that.

Jet U, along with ATP, and CAE, provide a CRJ transition course, and that's ALL your money gets you.

Those schools have interviews setup with regional airlines, and then you interview (like ANYONE else).

Jet U pilots have to take the ATP written, Tech Questions, HR Questions, and a CRJ sim check. If they pass all four, they get hired.

So, your 30k does not buy you the right seat of the job directly like Gulfstream does.

Now if I paid 30k to Jet U and then got 250 hours in the right seat of a Pinnacle CRJ, then that would be PFJ.

I thought you knew the differences between Gulfstream Academy (by a job), and Jet U, ATPs, CAE (buy a CRJ course, and only get an interview).
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You are still bypassing alot of time and steps that most other pilots took. Either it was Instructing, or flying Traffic watch or mapping. Those guys are going to look at you differently.

WHY pay for all the CRJ BS when your going to have to go right through it again? Is it because you think it will be to hard so you have to have someone spoon feed it to you the first time?
 
Some people on here need to stop wasting precious minutes of their life arguing about the same damn thing day in and day out. We have flightinfo for that. This is JetCareers man, I don't know how anyone else feels, but I am getting tired of coming on here and reading the SAME topics being kicked, whipped, beaten, slapped, hung, and outright shot up on here.

Cherokee, take your preaching to another site. Seriously. You're not an airline pilot, you never have been, you're not in a position to argue such a ridiculous viewpoint with a pretty seasoned UPS pilot and many others. You're views are against the general majority here and I am getting tired of seeing post after post littering such an awesome informative site between you and some "other" SJS, PFT lovers on here. Get your jollies off somewhere else.

Go buy your job, take your RJ course at JetU and shut up already.

/rant
 
It was a different world then. Despite ALL the stuff I have seen Unions (ALPA, IBT and in house) give up in the last 10 years, one thing I am happy they held the line on is paying for training. In fact, most contracts stipulate pay DURING training now. I'm proud of the old guys for actually giving a damn about the new guys for once.

Is it right that many people did that back then? Nope, but there really wasn't much of an option other then enlisting and having the tax payers pay for your training. Doesn't make it right, but it's how it was.
 
Snuggle said:
I'm pretty new to the 121 world, but I've noticed a lot of hatred amongst pilots. I don't really get it. It's a job and at the end of the day I have a life outside of aviation. I try not to get all caught up with the politics and I treat everyone how I would want to be treated. How come it feels like sometimes people look down on you if you work for a certain company? I've just started in this business and already I've had pilots talk down to me, some even flat out ignore me. Overall most people are cool so I guess I've just had bad luck lately. I just have a hard time understanding how I've offended someone else.
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SkyCougar said:
Snuggle, a long time old airline pilot friend just offered me his opinion via the phone. (he's not on this site, but I read him your question)...he told me that the people attracted to piloting are basically adrenalin junkies who like drama, (and that is why they often have psycho women and multiple marriages) His words, not mine, I swear! :eek:
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that really doesn't make sense...and this guys a pilot?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
If I was interviewing someone at the airline, when it comes to looking at their resume, I would look at their experience and qualifications. To shred the resume because a guy went to Gulfstream Academy, is childish at best.
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disagree, simply because someone has to start bringing this industry up and if it means disqualifying based on that, it's their perogative...i'd do the same thing...

seems like you really don't want to see the industry rise and be fruitful? where else is a good place to start?
 
Cherokee, let me save you a lot of stress.

A lot of us don't agree with programs like that. It's not that we're jealous, don't need just a little more information in order to see the light or need more convincing, it's just that a lot of professional pilots see it in a negative light.

That's just a monkey on the back which you're going to have to carry. You were forewarned, educated, argued with, spoken to and even counseled about those type programs and if you do it, well, you can't say you had no idea about professionals sentiments towards the program.

Sorry!

Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. The world we live in and the world we *want* to live in are mutually exclusive.

I'm speaking for only myself here, but I'm far from "one more post" away from being convinced that it's a good idea.

Do what you're going to do, but I think the general sentiment about those programs has already been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum. As dumbass as it sounds, we just have to agree to disagree and turn the page.
 
DE727UPS said:
3. "Everyone hates Jetblue pilots cause they are non-union"

Ummm....not really. I only know one guy that subscribes to this and he's right here at this very website. Don't anybody think this attitude is common. Not even a little bit common, in my experience.
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Absolutely 100% correct. I have not met one person who hates JetBlue pilots. If they had a crappy contract, that might be different. The have an awesome contract, and all but the ignorant know it.

Put another way, JetBlue dosen't have a union, nor do they see a need for one. You'd have to be a total idiot to think that's a bad thing.
 
DE727UPS said:
"I'll buy you a cup of coffee and explain it to you"

Explain what? Using the jumpseat to push an agenda? That I should join you in hating Jetblue pilots?

Save it. It didn't play at the other site and it's not playing here.

I've got no love lost for GoJet or Gulfstream, but I wouldn't deny them a jumpseat. I'd be trying to make it an educational experience all the way around.

I'll track you down next time we have a Spokane M and G. Trybysky is around most of the time and once in a while a JCer on a layover tracks me down. But it will at Hooters, not Starbucks. I'm more of Hooters guy.
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:yeahthat:

Using the jumpseat to push a personal agenda is about the most chicken**** think I can think of. It's not tolerated by true professionals, but then, there's a massive lack of professionalism in some people who call themseves "airline pilots"
 
CapnJim said:
:yeahthat:

Using the jumpseat to push a personal agenda is about the most chicken**** think I can think of. It's not tolerated by true professionals, but then, there's a massive lack of professionalism in some people who call themseves "airline pilots"
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Well, what about for scabs?
 
does anyone think that someone who goes through PFT/PFJ programs and becomes an RJ FO within 8 months of starting to fly will really not have much to talk about with the 4-year captain he's/she's paired with? That it would be a completely boring day. (lack of flight experience aside on this one. I'm just wondering about the personal effects. Would the FO have ANY common experiences to talk about? would the FO have had any time for hobbies?)
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Well, what about for scabs?
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Excellent point, Max. Jumpseats are a professional courtesy extended to professional peers.

That exempts scabs AND non-Union pilots who willingly undercut Union contracts. Despite claims to the contrary here, if the jetBlue personal service contract (indentured servitude) was so great, then why is there a unionization movement on the property right now?

Look no further than the jetBlue pilots who violated FARs by flying more than 8 hours a day in order to validate a request to the FAA to get a duty time limit waiver for jetBlue. Why? Because they wanted to fly transcon turns in order to be able to fly more hours a month and get into the "time and a half" wicket of their pay scale.

Professionals don't do that. They don't try to subvert the crew rest regulations that apply to all of us for personal gain.

So, go ahead. All you guys who think Gojets, jetBlue, Virgin and Skybus toads are your professional equals, give them a free ride to work. That's certainly your perogative. But, that says just as much about you as it does them.
 
Velocipede said:
Despite claims to the contrary here, if the jetBlue personal service contract (indentured servitude) was so great, then why is there a unionization movement on the property right now?
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.


OK? So is that not a move in the right direction then? Does this not show that maybe the pilots there do not want to be free of a union. If they want a union, why hate them for not having a union? Why is Colgan OK, but Jet Blue hated? Just trying to find the hidden line that we are not supposed to cross.
 
tprops4me said:
If they want a union, why hate them for not having a union? Why is Colgan OK, but Jet Blue hated? Just trying to find the hidden line that we are not supposed to cross.
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Who says I "hate" jetBlue pilots. Hate is a pretty strong word. I just don't offer them the professional courtesy of the jumpseat.

Why? They've gutted Union contracts by their willingness to work for substandard wages and retirement benefits.

When jetBlue started 5 years ago, their pay was $80-$90 dollars less per hour than Major airlines flying similar equipment. They had no defined benefit retirement plan. What's happened since they proved there were plenty of pilots willing to work under those conditions?

UAL, USAir, Delta and Northwest have all entered bankruptcy. They abrogated their Union contract obligations and imposed pay and retirement levels that are within pennies of what jetBlue pays.

So it really isn't a matter of unionism, per se. If jetBlue paid $300 an hour, put 25% into the B plan and had an A plan retirement, then they'd be RAISING the bar for the Legacy airlines. I'd gladly offer them a jumpseat ride. They'd be to us what Skywest is to the regionals.

But, that's not the case, is it? The linkage between what the airline pilot profession was and what its become can be directly laid at the feet of the jetBlue/Virgin/Skybuses of the world.

So, lets soften the "hate" rhetoric. It isn't hate. Its discernment. I choose not to support people who are detrimental to my professional and financial stability. Scabs don't rate jumpseat rides and neither do jetBlue/Virgin/Skybus pilots.
 
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