drummerpilot311
New Member
Don't tell me this forum has been here forever and I just haven't seen it. Sounds like it'll be a good one tho.
What's this?
- Thread starter drummerpilot311
- Start date
drummerpilot311
New Member
So there's a few controllers around?
drummerpilot311
New Member
What did you do... sounds... interesting?
Fox Xray
ATC
As I told Doug... I will make every effort to get on this forum at a minimum of once per day and try and answer any questions. I'll also let some of my fellow controllers know about this forum so they can add to things as well.
I am a center controller so my knowledge of tower and terminal ops is limited but I have friends in these places that I can turn to for answers.
I am a center controller so my knowledge of tower and terminal ops is limited but I have friends in these places that I can turn to for answers.
Fox Xray
ATC
I'm intentionally vague as to exactly where I work... in today's climate in the FAA I have to be careful. I in no way intend to bash the FAA or air any dirty laundry here but being anonymous allows me the ability to be more liberal on my answers.SoFlo said:
My goal is to try and provide answers to help pilots better understand ATC. I found these forums with the purpose of lurking and increasing my understanding of pilots and I have learned a lot...
DE727UPS said:
I don't see why not.
There's a lot of "Why in the hell did we zig while they asked XYZ to "zag" and now we're doing 250 85 miles out from the airport" that goes on.
I'm not sure where else pilots can ask ATC'ers direct questions about this stuff so I figure what place better than JC?
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Well. I was a strip ripper. I ripped strips.
Back in those days, we had an FDEP machine (flight data and entry processer) that printed out flight data strips. It was way old school outdated, even in the mid-80's. This thing was from the 60's, I swear. Anyhow, the flight data strips came out of it. I ripped them off. Then, I'd highlight the SID routing so the departure controller could see it easier and I'd drop them off at the proper controllers position.
I also did the arrival ATIS. I talked into this phone thingy that was a recorder. I'd listen to the recording and then send it out. I had to cut a new ATIS anytime new weather came out. I was once told to cut a new ATIS and fib a bit on the winds. Seems like the pilots were complaining about landing with more than a 10 knot tailwind. I had no idea. So I made a new ATIS with 9 knots of tailwind instead of 11.
I also did clearance delivery for TOA, HHR, and SMO. If a pilot called one of those towers for their IFR clearance, the tower guy would call me and I'd read the clearance to them, then give the departure strip to the proper radar guy.
When the weather was good, it was a cake easy job. I actually got board. Sometimes, the controllers would cover my position and I'd go to the burrito place in El Segundo for takeouts.
I remember when first got trained, how hard I thought the job was and how low I felt. Nearly walked away from it cause of the stress. Later, when I learned the ropes, I almost wished for hard IFR for the challenge.
Most of the controllers told me to get back into flying rather than stick with an ATC career. They were right. Leaving the FAA was the best decision I ever made. Not to imply that ATC is a bad job, it would be my second choice, but getting out when I did and sticking with flying until things turned around for me personally put me in the position I'm in now. Nuff said...
I'll never forget my time at LAX TRACON. It was in this old hangar that was torn down when they put in the 105 freeway. It was just west of the the old, old, first terminal building at LAX. Guess they can't tear that down for it's historical value. Anyhow, I think back on how cool it was to be in a dark room full of radar screens and the controllers doing their thing, sometimes shouting stressful instructions to their cohorts across the room. It was very exciting at times. Mindlessly boring at times. Really, not unlike flying a 767, in that respect.
Because of my background in ATC, I have tremendous respect for controllers. They always get the benefit of the doubt and I turn the other cheek, without regret, at the first offense. I've cringed more than once when a pilot went off on ATC and will never forget my Capt telling off a local controller in SDF over nothing. That Capt became the head of the professional standards commitee at our union for a while...boggles my mind.
Nice to see this new forum. We should encourge Fox Xray to answer our questions and bring his buddies along to JC.
Back in those days, we had an FDEP machine (flight data and entry processer) that printed out flight data strips. It was way old school outdated, even in the mid-80's. This thing was from the 60's, I swear. Anyhow, the flight data strips came out of it. I ripped them off. Then, I'd highlight the SID routing so the departure controller could see it easier and I'd drop them off at the proper controllers position.
I also did the arrival ATIS. I talked into this phone thingy that was a recorder. I'd listen to the recording and then send it out. I had to cut a new ATIS anytime new weather came out. I was once told to cut a new ATIS and fib a bit on the winds. Seems like the pilots were complaining about landing with more than a 10 knot tailwind. I had no idea. So I made a new ATIS with 9 knots of tailwind instead of 11.
I also did clearance delivery for TOA, HHR, and SMO. If a pilot called one of those towers for their IFR clearance, the tower guy would call me and I'd read the clearance to them, then give the departure strip to the proper radar guy.
When the weather was good, it was a cake easy job. I actually got board. Sometimes, the controllers would cover my position and I'd go to the burrito place in El Segundo for takeouts.
I remember when first got trained, how hard I thought the job was and how low I felt. Nearly walked away from it cause of the stress. Later, when I learned the ropes, I almost wished for hard IFR for the challenge.
Most of the controllers told me to get back into flying rather than stick with an ATC career. They were right. Leaving the FAA was the best decision I ever made. Not to imply that ATC is a bad job, it would be my second choice, but getting out when I did and sticking with flying until things turned around for me personally put me in the position I'm in now. Nuff said...
I'll never forget my time at LAX TRACON. It was in this old hangar that was torn down when they put in the 105 freeway. It was just west of the the old, old, first terminal building at LAX. Guess they can't tear that down for it's historical value. Anyhow, I think back on how cool it was to be in a dark room full of radar screens and the controllers doing their thing, sometimes shouting stressful instructions to their cohorts across the room. It was very exciting at times. Mindlessly boring at times. Really, not unlike flying a 767, in that respect.
Because of my background in ATC, I have tremendous respect for controllers. They always get the benefit of the doubt and I turn the other cheek, without regret, at the first offense. I've cringed more than once when a pilot went off on ATC and will never forget my Capt telling off a local controller in SDF over nothing. That Capt became the head of the professional standards commitee at our union for a while...boggles my mind.
Nice to see this new forum. We should encourge Fox Xray to answer our questions and bring his buddies along to JC.
My airline gets PDC's thru the ACARS. Sometimes when we don't receive the PDC as late as 15 minutes prior to departure (they'r enormally available about 30 mins prior), the CLNC delivery people get all preturbed and ramble on about how they send the PDC and to check it again in 10 mins.
Generally 5 minutes prior to departure, Im pretty time compressed between last minute paperwork, getting the final data entered into the FMS and if the PDC doesn't actually arrive, it just cluster-screws teh operation.
Guidance?
Generally 5 minutes prior to departure, Im pretty time compressed between last minute paperwork, getting the final data entered into the FMS and if the PDC doesn't actually arrive, it just cluster-screws teh operation.
Guidance?
Fox Xray
ATC
Eh... tower question. My exposure to ACARS was jumpseating and that was several years ago. Is this isolated to a single airport or do you experience it all over ??? Do other pilots on here have the same problem ??? If it's a single airport let me know which one, I know someone that can look into it. If the problem is widespread then it may just be an FAA equipment issuse.Doug Taylor said:
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
PDC's are the clearnace delivery guys wet dream. I remember when they paid an ATA GS-7 for the clearnace position at LAX. It was rumored to be the hardest position to check out on at LAX tower.
I've sometimes had a hard time getting a PDC, too, and don't really understand what goes on behind the scenes. Does local ATC have to "execute" each PDC before it comes up on ACARS? Does a live person have to look at it and approve it before we heave the sigh of relief that "we got the clearance on PDC".
Oh...wait.....I'm a Capt now, it ain't my problem....hehe
I've sometimes had a hard time getting a PDC, too, and don't really understand what goes on behind the scenes. Does local ATC have to "execute" each PDC before it comes up on ACARS? Does a live person have to look at it and approve it before we heave the sigh of relief that "we got the clearance on PDC".
Oh...wait.....I'm a Capt now, it ain't my problem....hehe
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
DE727UPS said:
While training for my PPL in TUS class C airspace I would get a "hard-on" hearing IFR clearances from the airline or corporate guys.
I had absolutely no idea (then) what the hell they were saying or talking about but it always brough a huge smile to my face.
Video killed the radio star,ACARS killed that...
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
DE727UPS said:
Eh...Take it from my aspect though. As a PPL rated pilot with like 150 hrs. tt. A verbal IFR clearance is like literally poetry in motion. It gave me chills.
Remember back to when you were in my shoes and I'm sure you could relate.
That being said I'm sure it is easier at your stage of your career. As you IFR clearances always typically given out lightning fast and you had to copy them just as fast because as soon as the controller unkeyed the mike there was someone else on the comm. requesting a clearance That and controllers don't seem to like to repeat themselves too often.
Unless of course you announce prior that your "student pilot". But I think that only gets you one maybe two repeats before your verbally berated!
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Maximillian_Jenius said:Unless of course you announce prior that your "student pilot". But I think that only gets you one maybe two repeats before your verbally berated!
I sure hope you didn't get too many IFR clearances and announce "student pilot".
As far as clearances, it one of the parts I still enjoy...of course, late at night it's usually direct, and I now have all my clearances memorized for the route, but when I was reserve it was always interesting seeing the different routings and how they worked us small guys/gals into the system.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
txpilot said:I sure hope you didn't get too many IFR clearances and announce "student pilot".
As far as clearances, it one of the parts I still enjoy...of course, late at night it's usually direct, and I now have all my clearances memorized for the route, but when I was reserve it was always interesting seeing the different routings and how they worked us small guys/gals into the system.
Well yea I wasn't getting IFR clearance as a student pilot. But you get my jist...
