What's the point of King Air (High Peformance) training...

jhugz said:
130 knots outside the final approach fix, jesus that is high performance.
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They fly c90's, not 200s, they teach standardization, and for the most part they follow poh recommended speeds.

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SteveC said:
I'm a big believer that it is better and safer to be on speed too early rather than too late. Especially for people that are just learning the airplane.

In a related note, I was just reading the "pilot pushing" thread; does anybody else see an example here of the insidious way that pilots can pressure other pilots? Sure it can be perfectly safe for an experienced pilot to carry 250 knots to the marker, but is it smart to talk about that ability in a way that places that same expectation on the less experienced?
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YES. I actually had another crew behind me griping about the speed of my approach one day. I was flying a perfectly reasonable speed. And for the record, we were flying the exact same model jet. Plus we get paid by the hour, and we were early. Wankers.
 
jhugz said:
100 knots on a 10 mile final.
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Flying's a lot like sex. Unless you slow down so much things won't stay up, sometimes it's nice to slow down and prolong the experience. It's not all about who can get done faster.

That's something you can use in both events. Try it, you'll like it. Unless you're paying by the hour, there's no real drawback.

That also works with both events.

Cheers. :)
 
SteveC said:
In a related note, I was just reading the "pilot pushing" thread; does anybody else see an example here of the insidious way that pilots can pressure other pilots? Sure it can be perfectly safe for an experienced pilot to carry 250 knots to the marker, but is it smart to talk about that ability in a way that places that same expectation on the less experienced?
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YES!

Where I see it is when there's ground icing. These crazy AirNet guys will take off with all kinds of crap adhering to the wings. Is it safe? Probably. Is their certificate safe? Certainly NOT. My staple for ADM is to be safe AND keep the certificate safe. There's tons of things you can do safely that will get you a lovely FAA investigation. This is the one thing I've noticed in the 135 world and I'm guessing it happens in 121 as well. Lots of big shots and dangerous cocky attitudes. Lots of "it was fine yesterday when I did this". Lots of pilots forget about keeping their certificates safe as well.

There's lots of cowboys in this world. One thing is for sure with standardization. It ensures a consistent outcome. Every cowboy out there will have his day. In your example Steve, that day will be the guy that does 250 to the outer marker, isn't on his A-game that day, doesn't get stabilized and has an incident on landing.

Getting upset over a kingair doing a training flight, REALLY? o_O I mean, I like to say my fair shair of crap about UND as well, but dang.
 
jhugz said:
I'm not saying that I'm not at fault for what I did. I should have pursued better training on the equipment and understood it better. I also should have just not operated it.
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In general, proper training on equipment and standardized procedures can be beneficial. Right? Just because it CAN be flown across the fence at 120 by a pilot with 1000 hrs in type doesn't mean it SHOULD be. This is especially true for somebody who has little experience. They need to get comfortable first.

Crawl. Walk. Run. You crawled once, and now you fly into airport where others are crawling. You probably torqued off some 135 pilot during your training, too.
 
jhugz said:
People that know nothing but standardization crash q400s in buffalo. It's an airplane, use some airmanship.
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I have no clue why I am wasting my time but here it goes.

It has nothing to do with not knowing anything but standardization it is about knowing why standardization is important and knowing when it is ok to go outside standardization. Unable is not a sign of weakness or lack of skill but a sign of understanding and of high SA. I can do 250 to the maker in my jet but should I? I can do 5500+ FPM but should I? Do you know why I don't, because the people paying me don't want me to do it and it sucks for the people in the back of the plane.
 
Gonzo said:
I have no clue why I am wasting my time but here it goes.

It has nothing to do with not knowing anything but standardization it is about knowing why standardization is important and knowing when it is ok to go outside standardization. Unable is not a sign of weakness or lack of skill but a sign of understanding and of high SA. I can do 250 to the maker in my jet but should I? I can do 5500+ FPM but should I? Do you know why I don't, because the people paying me don't want me to do it and it sucks for the people in the back of the plane.
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Huggies doesn't actually have a viable argument. He's hacked about something, therefore all space-time and logic must bend to his snide and poorly written arguments. But good on you for trying though. :)
 
Jhugz - I've met you in person. We had dinner. The waitress was charmed by me. You were charmed by me and bought in fact. Everyone is charmed by me. But, this isn't about me. It should be - I'm an interesting topic. And charming. But no, sadly, this isn't about me.

At dinner you were engaging, nice, funny - and I was kind of taken aback at how soft-spoken you were. Not as in "quiet talker" but in "more thoughtful, not bombastic" talker. But on the interwebs you are mister bad ass tough guy. I'm not getting that. If you'd just be you I think you would have more luck with girls and people would become a nuisance to you because they'd want to hang around you a lot. For everyone that flies a Metro single pilot, there is someone that is flying an A-10 or F-18 single pilot - and that is more bad ass. And neither of those things are REALLY bad ass because they don't have tailwheels, so there's always that.
 
Huggies, just a word of advice. Networking can work both ways: it can help you get a job, or it can ensure that you don't get a job. Make some corrections to your attitude, or it won't be working the good way for you. And I doubt you want to spend the rest of your career flying single pilot in a Metro.
 
Gonzo said:
I have no clue why I am wasting my time but here it goes.

It has nothing to do with not knowing anything but standardization it is about knowing why standardization is important and knowing when it is ok to go outside standardization. Unable is not a sign of weakness or lack of skill but a sign of understanding and of high SA. I can do 250 to the maker in my jet but should I? I can do 5500+ FPM but should I? Do you know why I don't, because the people paying me don't want me to do it and it sucks for the people in the back of the plane.
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If you let the comment stand on it's own and don't read any of the rest of the thread, well then he's got a point.
 
z987k said:
If you let the comment stand on it's own and don't read any of the rest of the thread, well then he's got a point.
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No he doesn't, he has one link in the accident chain. It might be a big link but it is only one link.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Huggies, just a word of advice. Networking can work both ways: it can help you get a job, or it can ensure that you don't get a job. Make some corrections to your attitude, or it won't be working the good way for you. And I doubt you want to spend the rest of your career flying single pilot in a Metro.
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If the price is right who <edited> hes flying a skyhawk?!


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WacoFan said:
Jhugz - I've met you in person. We had dinner. The waitress was charmed by me. You were charmed by me and bought in fact. Everyone is charmed by me. But, this isn't about me. It should be - I'm an interesting topic. And charming. But no, sadly, this isn't about me.

At dinner you were engaging, nice, funny - and I was kind of taken aback at how soft-spoken you were. Not as in "quiet talker" but in "more thoughtful, not bombastic" talker. But on the interwebs you are mister bad ass tough guy. I'm not getting that. If you'd just be you I think you would have more luck with girls and people would become a nuisance to you because they'd want to hang around you a lot. For everyone that flies a Metro single pilot, there is someone that is flying an A-10 or F-18 single pilot - and that is more bad ass. And neither of those things are REALLY bad ass because they don't have tailwheels, so there's always that.
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two old guys agreeing...but what would they know...and I'm kind of a big deal. (lol)
 
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