What's the next freight airplane?

braunpilot

What day is it?
Ok, so I was thinking about this recently. It basically takes about 15-20 years for a new aircraft to show up as a freight aircraft. What airplane is next? Is it going to be the CRJ/ERJ? Or some other aircraft? Wonder if a freight aircraft will ever buy a new airplane. HA! Doubt it. Any ideas?
 
Is it going to be the CRJ/ERJ?

Mmmmm, I doubt it. For the payload vs. fuel burn vs. what is already done with tp's I don't think theres a market for it. I know that FedEx feeders are prohibited from jet flying per the mainline pilot contract.
 
Company down here in TUS was doing 727 freighter conversions for a long time, from retired pax birds. Recently, there have been 737 models in here getting the same mods.
 
Mmmmm, I doubt it. For the payload vs. fuel burn vs. what is already done with tp's I don't think theres a market for it. I know that FedEx feeders are prohibited from jet flying per the mainline pilot contract.


Yep. UPS has a scope clause also.
 
What airplane is next? Is it going to be the CRJ/ERJ?

Mmmmm, I doubt it. For the payload vs. fuel burn vs. what is already done with tp's I don't think theres a market for it.

Apparently there is a market. Although this article is dated 08/08/06:

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...unches-cargo-crj-as-cascade-aims-for-kit.html

West Air launches cargo CRJ as Cascade aims for kit deal


By Darren Shannon in Washington DC & David Kaminski-Morrow in London
Bombardier closes on conversion contract for freighter variant of 50-seater

Bombardier is in talks with British Colombia-based Cascade Aerospace to design, certificate and build the CRJ200 cargo conversion kit for the package freighter (PF) programme that Swedish freight operator West Air Europe launched last week.
Gothenburg-based West Air Europe is acquiring two ex-Lufthansa CRJ200s for conversion to PF configuration. The cargo airline, which has an all-turboprop fleet of 17 ATR 72s, BAe ATPs and HS748s, is expected to introduce its first CRJ200 PF in April. West Air plans to add its first jet, an ex-Ansett BAe 146, in October this year.
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"We require the Bombardier CRJ200 PF to fulfil specific customer demands for higher than turboprop speeds on routes of more than 500nm [925km]," says West Air Europe president Gustaf Thureborn.
Negotiations between Bombardier and Cascade on developing the conversion kit continue, but are at an advanced stage, says a source close to the talks.
The kit, which will be sold exclusively by Bombardier, includes the stripping out of all passenger elements of the cabin, the installation of protective flooring, fuselage liners, ceiling panels and fire and smoke suppressants, as well as some minor structural modifications, says the source.
Parcels will be loaded through the existing forward passenger door. In the all-cargo configuration, the CRJ200 PF will have a cargo volume of roughly 48.2m3 (1,700ft3) and a payload of 6,350kg.
At 24,000kg, maximum take-off weight will be the same as the high-gross-weight version of the CRJ200. Cascade will have to obtain supplemental type certificate for its kit.
The conversion of a CRJ200 is understood to take 30 days and the unit list price is estimated to be around $500,000. Bombardier believes that there could be demand for up 50 PF conversions for its 50-seat jet.
"Since the introduction of the concept, considerable interest has been expressed by many prospective customers," says Rod Sheridan, Bombardier Regional Aircraft vice president Asset Management.
Meanwhile, West Air is also expanding its ATP fleet with several more examples of the turbo­prop, including three aircraft acquired from Danish regional carrier Sun-Air.


Here's a newer article, but I can't find a date on it:


http://www.aircargoworld.com/regions/northam_0307.htm

Rethinking Regional
Bombardier Aerospace thinks speed and short-haul cargo can combine for a regional jet freighter niche
Robert W. Moorman
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ombardier Aerospace may have found another use for its no-longer-produced CRJ-200 regional jet as a small freighter. But much of the air cargo industry is uttering the same line given by regional airlines in the late 1980s when the CRJ passenger airliner first appeared: The aircraft can't compete economically with a comparably sized turboprop.
The industry was wrong then and could be wrong now.
The Canadian plane-maker this spring will deliver two CRJ-200 Package Freighters to West Air Sweden, which plan to use the aircraft on behalf of various Scandinavian postal authorities, integrators and logistics providers. The West Air experiment could have a significant impact on the air cargo industry if the airline, which also flies ATP freighters, makes money with the swift jet. Several airlines are anxiously awaiting news of the success or failure of the CRJ freighter.
Bombardier could use some good news. In recent years, it's been eclipsed by rival Embraer, which has moved beyond RJs into manufacturing of 70- to 100-seat plus airliners. The upper end of this market, however, remains illusive to Bombardier, which once again delayed plans to proceed with the $2 billion development of a 110-to 130-seat narrowbody jet, the so-called C Series.
It sees strong potential, however, in the freighter market.
"The CRJ has the same benefit as a package freighter as it did when introduced as a 50-passenger airliner - speed," says Frank Baistrocchi, director of sales in Bombardier Aerospace's asset management group. "It's not a replacement for a turboprop, but an expansion vehicle. With this aircraft, "you will be able to introduce new freighter markets, reach out further."
Cost Rules
RJs were a very successful instrument in testing new passenger markets for larger regional and major passenger airlines, and Bombardier is hoping to repeat this formula in cargo with the CRJ-200PF. Bombardier has manufactured 1,021 CRJ100s/200s since the first CRJ was delivered to Lufthansa CityLine in October 1992.
Bombardier claims the CRJ-200PF will offer operators a quick and cost-effective connection on point-to-point routes of between two and three hours. With a 10,000-pound payload, the plane can travel just beyond 2,000 nautical miles. Range with a maximum payload of 14,000 pounds is 839 nautical miles.
Early estimates show the package freighter market will need between 25 and 50 aircraft over the next five years, depending on initial interest.
The conventional view is that the short-haul market is being taken over by trucks in North America and Europe but Bombardier believes trucks can't compete with the RJ's range on long, thin markets. The major obstacles remain the high cost of jet fuel plus the relatively stable residual value of the CRJ.
The planes produced between 1992 and 2001 range in value between $6.1 million and $9.4 million, says Gueric Dechavanne, director of asset management for BACK Aviation Solutions, a sister company of Air Cargo World. For the longest-range editions, the price can reach $10.4 million.
At those prices, the only way for the CRJ-200 package freighter to succeed is as a hauler of premium air freight, say industry observers.
"Clearly, this aircraft is not a winner on a cost basis, but there are some niches for the CRJ," said George Hamlin, an airline analyst.
"The idea will be to get this aircraft into an express carrier application," said Robert Dahl, project director for the Air Cargo Management Group.
Total aircraft operating costs for the passenger CRJ-200 are around $1,800 per block hour, with fuel accounting for about 40 percent, said BACK.
Despite sticker shock, other manufacturers are revisiting the RJ freighter concept.
In late January, BAE Systems Regional Aircraft announced the re-launch of its four-engine BAe-146 Quiet Trader freighter conversion program. BAE will team with a conversion house in Romania.
RJ Partner
To convert the CRJs to freighter, Bombardier selected Cascade Aerospace of Abbotsford, British Columbia, which will build and certify the conversion kits for the CRJ-200 freighters.
To maximize capacity, all non-essential systems and items have been removed from the CRJ200PFs. The passenger-to-freighter conversion of the CRJ200 is modest by most standards. The modification is restricted to the cabin, with protective covering and minor reinforcements to the forward and aft sections of the cabin. The fuselage will be gutted and a flexible liner system added. The freighter will use the existing portside door; there are no plans to design a larger cargo door. Both aircraft will undergo function testing before delivery this spring.
"We don't see this modification as being so complex that it couldn't be done by a reputable MRO," said Greg Thorne, Cascade's chief engineer.
Thorne said two European regional airlines with MRO capabilities have inquired about the conversion kit. Although Europe remains the primary target market, all-cargo carriers in India, Mexico and Australia have shown interest.
 
How much did passenger perception play in the success of regional jets? The "oh god it has props it must be from 1937!" attitude.
 
Obviously wouldn't happen, but maybe some of you could weigh in on what single pilot RJ flying might be like - just curious. Is it remotely possible?
 
Ok, so I was thinking about this recently. It basically takes about 15-20 years for a new aircraft to show up as a freight aircraft. What airplane is next? Is it going to be the CRJ/ERJ? Or some other aircraft? Wonder if a freight aircraft will ever buy a new airplane. HA! Doubt it. Any ideas?

It only takes a few years to make and certify one :laff:

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"2 engines, 1 prop"

Unfortunately, the company (Ayres, yes, that one) went TU before the "Loadmaster" ever took off. FedEx had ordered 50 of 'em.
 
crj is already being used for cargo in mexico and europe. The CRJ is a design based on an challenger600, which was originally built to sell to Fedex to replace the Falcon20. Fedex ended up going with the 727 because biz was booming. The CRJ with a cargo door is ideal height for a forklift(what ever that means?). 737 also has been used for cargo for quite some time, used to ride in the jumpseat of one for kittyhawk.
 
I think we will still see light airplanes for the courier routes such as Senecas, Bonanzas, Stationairs, Barons, etc. I think the caravan will be staying around as well. Maybe the G8 Airvan or Kodiak will be picked up by some users?

Getting into larger aircraft possibly king air conversions? I know there are companies that sell cargo door conversions for them but not sure on a very useful payload or strong enough floor? I know there are still a few B1900's that have enough life left to be converted and used again. Plenty of J31's in the desert with useful life left but once again, don't know how useful they are for payload and floor strength plus the airstairs are in the rear so one would have to climb over the cargo to get up to the front. Priority Air has been using PC-12 which I read is an awesome platform for cargo. The operating costs are low but the acquisition costs are too high for those right now.

Going into even bigger aircraft. Amflight seems to like the emb120's. Easy and plentiful to convert. Fedex seems to like the ATR's pretty well. There is the 5800 conversion for Convairs that IFL has done to extend the life and usability of those. IBC is going to an almost all Saab 340 fleet and from what I gather from talking to a few pilots, the company seems to like them well for the intl. routes.

I doubt we will see the CRJ/ERJ being used for freight anytime soon. The price is to high for purchase/lease, the aircraft is expensive to convert, and those aircraft are a bit too expensive to operate (looking at payload, route, mx, etc.)

my 2cents worth...
 
How much did passenger perception play in the success of regional jets? The "oh god it has props it must be from 1937!" attitude.
A TON, ask anybody how much during the late 90's they switched airlines just because they didn't want to see a prop on the front of the airplane.
 
Plenty of J31's in the desert with useful life left but once again, don't know how useful they are for payload and floor strength plus the airstairs are in the rear so one would have to climb over the cargo to get up to the front.

Oh, that's no problem. Just put a little hatch/"emergency exit" in the front the pilot has to sort of fling himself over to get in the cockpit when the freight fills the back. Ask me how I know. That said, the J-ball is slower than molasses in January...not that this seems to bother freight operators, I guess. It does have the advantage of being (reportedly) unreasonably hard to hand-fly and it has Garrets (the official engine of last century). Hmm, I think maybe we have a winner.
 
.... Priority Air has been using PC-12 which I read is an awesome platform for cargo.... .Amflight seems to like the emb120's. Easy and plentiful to convert....

See...if I ever get to 135 mins (bloody unlikely, but you never know) I could be reasonably happy...I think...flying either one of those two airplanes...
 
See...if I ever get to 135 mins (bloody unlikely, but you never know) I could be reasonably happy...I think...flying either one of those two airplanes...

Haha! I'm totally in the same boat! I've been stuck near 800hrs for what seems like forever. I had an interview with amflight for the emb120 but I didn't get it. So that marks that one off the list of perspective freighter planes I will not be flying. Frankly I would be happy with a dirty old Seneca I or 210

Ask me how I know.

ummmm.....the MU2 ???? Hey I'm right!!! I have dealt with a few of the Air 1st Mitsi's workin the ramp.

That said, the J-ball is slower than molasses in January...not that this seems to bother freight operators,

Doesn't seem to bother Royal with their EMB110's...I am guessing if they wash those things they could gain 10 knots...although wash a freight plane is like an oxymoron.

Hmm, I think maybe we have a winner.

I think so too!

Actually I just found this at walmart. Not sure why the freight operators haven't jumped at this? The aquisition costs are really low ($35), its a T-prop so you know operating costs will be low (spin the props with rubber bands), and the mx is easy (its made of bricks!)

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:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm: I kid I kid!
 
I had saw that from the article above. I just don't think we will see something like that here in the states any time soon. I had read once where a freight company looked into buying the mothballed Indy Air CRJ's for freight conversins but it was way to cost prohibitive. Especially since there are lots of JS31, JS 41's, BAE 146's, Fokkers, etc...all much cheaper in acquiring and converting.
 
I had saw that from the article above. I just don't think we will see something like that here in the states any time soon. I had read once where a freight company looked into buying the mothballed Indy Air CRJ's for freight conversins but it was way to cost prohibitive. Especially since there are lots of JS31, JS 41's, BAE 146's, Fokkers, etc...all much cheaper in acquiring and converting.

Estafa in Mexico is running 2 CRJ200's - converting 2 more as we speak, and will continue to do so - their business is booming apparently. After talking to the pilots flying them in Juarez it's actually not a bad freighter.
 
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