Whats the fastest way...?

Yeah, putting all of your eggs into one basket (especially this basket) won't come back to bite you at all. If you're going to do it...double major.

-mini


Hmmm, why the hostility?

I'm just giving MY advice based on MY experience. One can chose to ignore it or not.

The people I know who are successful in their careers in aviation have committed to the field 100%.

In life you get out of something what you put into it. It may take awhile, but it usually happens.

TP
 
I disagree with this sentiment. If you are going to commit to something in life, commit 100%. You'll hear the above a lot, but it just doesn't make sense. While you don't need a degree in aviation to be succsessful, you can gain a lot from it. Not just theory, but contacts with people who are in aviation as well.


Typhoonpilot

Mini was not particularly hostile towards you TP, he's just been around the bush a few times and uses the same logic I (and many others) do when it comes to quick ways of making things happen in Aviation. In the end it is not about what school you went to, how much time and money it took you to get your multi time or who's ass you kissed to get ahead. It's about your patience, your journey, your integrity and your ability and willingness to take this industry for what it is. Knowing people and doing what Bill said helps a lot. I got my current job while being active with the FAA Safety Team. Actually most of my better jobs came from networking, volunteering and doing something for other people.

Commit 100% of your life to your private life, friends, fun and family. You can still be successful in Aviation and it will take serious commitment to be successful in any career. Yet, I work to live, not vice versa and airplanes make very bad friends. They kinda sit there, always looking the same, always doing the same. You pull, they fly. You push, and stuff falls off. Always make sure the front doesn't fall off!

DO NOT commit 100% to a career. The road to hell is full of parked guys and gals who had nothing to fall back on, once they had heartbeat irregularities, or any other medical denial disease or trouble with accident or job costing incident. If all you have is Aviation you'll be suffering for it. I know plenty of guys with huge degrees in Aviation Management, Dispatchers, Pilots and A&P's. If your initial desire is to be a pilot, you may enjoy dispatching only until you realize that you're not doing what you really wanted to do. It sucks to sit in a office and watch other people fly. Be able (it takes some 10-20 years to attain this ability) to get grounded for good and never whine about it. It took me years to figure this out, and it took me a looong time to get tired enough of this industry and how it is represented by it's people, to realize that the big day will come.

2 Options:

One of these days, you'll walk out on the ramp, and realize that today is your very last flight. Don't be sad about it.

One of these days, you'll walk out on the ramp, and don't realize that today is your very last flight. Don't be sad about it.

To the OP:
The fastest way (instant or short term gratification) will yield a lot of trouble. You may be better off sticking your head into this game for a while to find out if you really want what else comes with it. I know a good amount of pilots who kicked their airline careers after realizing that there is always someone a little cheaper, quicker or better available for you to remain a number on a seniority list. Think of the monkey tree:

The higher up you are in the tree, the better the view, there is a clear path ahead, all you have to do is hold tight and keep climbing.
Whenever you look down, you see smiling faces, sweating and they are staring right at you, full of excitement and motivation.
When you are low on the tree, all you usually see is a bunch of a-holes climbing.

Take your time, take a good look around, buckle up and get ready for a rough ride. Smooth air is ahead, you just gotta make it through this heavy turbulence without loosing your wings. Listen to the people you would call old farts if you saw them. Keep your dreams and hopes up, but go into this with an open mind and WIDE open eyes. In fact the wider you can open them, the better for you. Nothing is free, and only few people have had easy luck. Nothing is a cool as it seems at first (ask Doug if he would like to land more often) and everything you do comes with it's own downs.

I crossed the Atlantic Ocean 4 times in a 747-400 in the cockpit. Takeoff = Uhhh Exciting! Cruise = rattle, rattle, rattle, ding dong = announcements, rattle, rattle rattle, (Beef or Pasta?) rattle, rattle, rattle, (Ohhh look! More water...), rattle, rattle rattle... Callout: EUROPE!!!, rattle, rattle, rattle, (More Ding Dong, push this button, put this here, (yup, AP is doing an awesome job today), click, click, turn, twist, blah blah, ARRIVAL! rattle rattle rattle... Landing - Uhhh Exciting! Thanks for flying with us today! (SMILE) Go to hotel, get s&^tfaced try to get the hot FA to go out or in with you, (maybe she won't tell you that she's lesbos, got 9 kids, or that she converted to total sexual refusal years ago?)..... and do it again tomorrow. Do this twice a month. Awesome!


Good luck!
 
im 18 and attending louisiana tech university in september and majoring in pro-av. they do internships with asa, and mesaba, i think. my flight instructor graduated from there this november but ive never heard him mention the internships.


majoring in pro-av is a good idea to simply because four years of your life is centered around learning concepts and theories that are generally bypassed in the pilot mills. once i obtain my CFI, the department of pro av at tech promises jobs to students. flying for money/experience while in school? nothing beats that. hell youll only be 18-22 years old, i dont mind spending it on a college campus, while doing myself some good towards my proffession.

take life in slots, enjoy each section as it comes and goes.
 
im 18 and attending louisiana tech university in september and majoring in pro-av. they do internships with asa, and mesaba, i think. my flight instructor graduated from there this november but ive never heard him mention the internships.


majoring in pro-av is a good idea to simply because four years of your life is centered around learning concepts and theories that are generally bypassed in the pilot mills. once i obtain my CFI, the department of pro av at tech promises jobs to students. flying for money/experience while in school? nothing beats that. hell youll only be 18-22 years old, i dont mind spending it on a college campus, while doing myself some good towards my proffession.

take life in slots, enjoy each section as it comes and goes.


Music to my ears:sarcasm:
 
I gotta second what Doug said--all good advice. If you have a burning desire to degree in aviation just for the love of aviation, nothing wrong with that. But do yourself a big favor and diversify. Get that business or math or science (or even liberal arts) degree first. It IS an eggs/basket issue. But it will also make you more marketable/competitive. It can be like trying to get into the high-end schools--they don't just look at your grades. They look at your extracurricular associations and activities--clubs, sports, etc. If you possess other skills/knowledge/attributes, you don't look like a one-trick pony. Oh, did I mention the eggs/basket thing? (This is a highly volatile industry...) Good luck!
 
debt is a dream killer.
That's probably the smartest thing anyone could say when it comes to career advice.

Will you go into debt in college/flight training? Yeah probably. But the difference between $10k in debt, $60k in debt, and $120k in debt is much more dramatic than the imaginary numbers on a piece of paper.

You may love flying, you may hate it. But the thing that burdensome debt does is close doors. When a huge freaking student loan payment is bearing down on you...you might not be able to drive across the country and set up shop in AZ as a part time CFI. The only choice may be that bank teller job because you need the damn income...and who knows if you'll ever be able to afford to chase the dream again.
 
That's probably the smartest thing anyone could say when it comes to career advice.

Will you go into debt in college/flight training? Yeah probably. But the difference between $10k in debt, $60k in debt, and $120k in debt is much more dramatic than the imaginary numbers on a piece of paper.
:yeahthat:

Read Clocks's post. Again. Read it again. Commit it to memory. Investing in your education with student loan debt - that can be a good idea. But financing all of your flight training can and will eat you alive, in my opinion. I'm not a pro pilot, but I do have some experience with dealing with debt. I'm out of it now, but I cannot stress to you enough how much of a nightmare it can really be. Others here have some horror stories - look up some posts by Flying Ninja from about a year or two ago.
 
If you do go into debt don't go more than 100k in the whole. I don't know how those Riddle guys with 100k-150k in debt survive.
 
I went to Riddle, came out in '03 (a year early) w/ $14k @ 2.25%. Worked my butt off before and during college, sold a car to help pay for the multi, and graduated a year early with the help of some high school AP tests and college classes I took while there and going to school full time to save on room and board. It can be done.
 
That's probably the smartest thing anyone could say when it comes to career advice.

Will you go into debt in college/flight training? Yeah probably. But the difference between $10k in debt, $60k in debt, and $120k in debt is much more dramatic than the imaginary numbers on a piece of paper.

You may love flying, you may hate it. But the thing that burdensome debt does is close doors. When a huge freaking student loan payment is bearing down on you...you might not be able to drive across the country and set up shop in AZ as a part time CFI. The only choice may be that bank teller job because you need the damn income...and who knows if you'll ever be able to afford to chase the dream again.

:yeahthat:

:yeahthat:

Read Clocks's post. Again. Read it again. Commit it to memory. Investing in your education with student loan debt - that can be a good idea. But financing all of your flight training can and will eat you alive, in my opinion. I'm not a pro pilot, but I do have some experience with dealing with debt. I'm out of it now, but I cannot stress to you enough how much of a nightmare it can really be. Others here have some horror stories - look up some posts by Flying Ninja from about a year or two ago.

:yeahthat:

I managed to get by borrowing $36,000. I have it on a 15 year note, and it's pretty bad. I can't even begin to imagine borrowing amounts over 50K. My minimum payments on a 5.25% interest rate are $356.13 every month. I've recently taken a new job as an insurance agent making good money, and hope to pay this debt off within the next couple years. Once I'm debt free, I'm hoping to get back into aviation career wise again. The only difference is next time I try and get a job as a pilot, I will be debt free!
 
If you do go into debt don't go more than 100k in the whole. I don't know how those Riddle guys with 100k-150k in debt survive.

I don't work at a regional....

I don't work at a regional either, but 150K of debt for aviation career training would make me ill...to put it in perspective, that's about equal to the mortgage on a new construction 3 bedroom home in a nice neighborhood where I live.

To the OP: Think long and hard before accepting a huge amount of debt. Ask yourself if it's really worth falling victim to the current culture of excessive debt just to satisfy the disease of instant gratification (getting an aviation career as quick as possible). Aviation is especially harsh on those with massive debt, and too many folks (especially at a young age) don't have the financial responibility to truly understand the devastating reality behind huge debt.
 
Hmmm, why the hostility?

I'm just giving MY advice based on MY experience. One can chose to ignore it or not.

The people I know who are successful in their careers in aviation have committed to the field 100%.

In life you get out of something what you put into it. It may take awhile, but it usually happens.

TP
I wasn't being hostile at all. I just don't see the point in anyone getting a degree that is good for one thing anymore.

Even with no experience in the field, your name goes to the top of the pile of resumes of people with no experience. That can be the difference between getting an interview and never hearing from the company again.

You can put 500% into something if you want. Me? I'll be more than happy with contingency plans. ...there's a reason I file an alternate when the regs say I need to, and it isn't because the regs say I need to.

-mini
 
Nah its not bad

It can't be good! I can only imagine what your payments are. I would say it would have to be on a 30 year note just to make your monthly payments easier. If that's the case you will pay (more than likely) at least an extra $100,000 in interest over the span of the loan. Not including the mortgage on the house, or future house if you don't already own one.
 
Music to my ears:sarcasm:
considering the ratio of students who enter the program to those who seek a flight instructing job is small, they have the ability to make that promise. the promise made to me was also a circumstantial promise, based off of current numbers and the fact that i will be eligible in a matter of months. currently, there are 20-25 instructors for over 500 people in the program. out of the 500 people in the program 5-7% actually seek instructing jobs, while the others seek internships.

ive also checked with other sources (ie those who are currently in the program, and those who've graduated) with knowledge of the method. it sounds rather trustworthy to me, obviously because im dedicating my four years in college to it.
 
there was a certain school that promised jobs, but they went belly up. So what I'm trying to say that in our economic time, it's hard to guarantee anything.
 
It can't be good! I can only imagine what your payments are. I would say it would have to be on a 30 year note just to make your monthly payments easier. If that's the case you will pay (more than likely) at least an extra $100,000 in interest over the span of the loan. Not including the mortgage on the house, or future house if you don't already own one.

Nope 10 year loan at 4.2%. I don't have a car payment. I know i can't own a house until i turn 32 which is when it'll be paid off. I never maid less than 35 a year including when i was a CFI so I never had a really bad year that put me in a hole. It sucks but I don't cry poor or eat Ramen like Jhugz. Grant it I don't goto Martini bars but I manage to enjoy life.
 
I started out at about 50grand in debt out of college with an aviation degree (I went to a cheap state school). I started paying off my loans in the fall of 2005 and I am somewhere around the halfway mark with paying them off! I do pay a good percentage more than the minimum amount every month though. I even manage to put money in the bank at the end of the month and I don't drink cheap beer! I chose to figure out how to pay the bills first (in which flying freight has helped me do) over flying for a regional where the low pay would not allow me to pay the bills. It's sounds like an easy decision, but it's tougher than you would think.

The best advice that I could give you is to take a good look at the entire industry before you decide how you will enter,what aspect to enter, and when it's time to move to the next job. The grass isn't always greener on other side. Sometimes the grass is fake like some of those lawns you see in Arizona. And when you pull back the plastic turf, all you're left with is dirt.:) Just because one apsect of the industry works for a certain person doesn't mean it will work for you. Most pilots careers are 30% hard work, 30% luck, 30% networking, and 10% chance! That does equal 100% right?:D
 
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