What's the deal with anti-Leather jackets?

This reminds me of the whole "business casual" phenomenon at many companies in America. For the past decade or so, companies have been going business casual to make the work environment more "inviting" and "comfortable." Now, years later, studies are coming out that are showing that productivity and efficiency are greatly reduced in offices that allow business casual attire. Offices that stick to traditional business attire are coming out way ahead in productivity. One study demonstrated a 3.6% drop in productivity in business casual environments. Another showed that over half of offices that recently instituted business casual policies observed a drop in productivity.

In general, too many Americans like to "dress down" at inappropriate times. When you're doing business, you need to look like it. When you're flying airplanes, you need to look like an air line pilot. The time to wear a leather jacket is when you're going out to the local bar, not when you're flying a multi-million dollar aircraft at work.
 
This reminds me of the whole "business casual" phenomenon at many companies in America. For the past decade or so, companies have been going business casual to make the work environment more "inviting" and "comfortable." Now, years later, studies are coming out that are showing that productivity and efficiency are greatly reduced in offices that allow business casual attire. Offices that stick to traditional business attire are coming out way ahead in productivity. One study demonstrated a 3.6% drop in productivity in business casual environments. Another showed that over half of offices that recently instituted business casual policies observed a drop in productivity.
An excellent point substantiated by facts


When you're doing business, you need to look like it. When you're flying airplanes, you need to look like an air line pilot.
I do . . . everybody recognizes that I am, in fact, an airline pilot. Look at my picture, hard to mistake me for anything but an airline pilot.

The time to wear a leather jacket is when you're going out to the local bar, not when you're flying a multi-million dollar aircraft at work.
personal opinion (to which you are entitled )


If you are trying to draw a parrallel between productivity and the airline uniform, I think you will be hard-pressed (nice pun) to make that analogy fit.
 
Here's another interesting thing i noticed today.....

While standing in line at the food court in CVG today i noticed a US Customs/Border Officer wearing a leather jacket uniform. It had USCBP patches....etc. on it. Interesting stuff.
Thats the first time i've seen them in that. It looked kinda bada** And it reminded me of some police jackets/coats that i've seen in Europe.
 
Here's another interesting thing i noticed today.....

While standing in line at the food court in CVG today i noticed a US Customs/Border Officer wearing a leather jacket uniform. It had USCBP patches....etc. on it. Interesting stuff.
Thats the first time i've seen them in that. It looked kinda bada** And it reminded me of some police jackets/coats that i've seen in Europe.
As long as it isn't TSA:D
 
I do . . . everybody recognizes that I am, in fact, an airline pilot. Look at my picture, hard to mistake me for anything but an airline pilot.

Looks like a snowman to me. ;)

If you are trying to draw a parrallel between productivity and the airline uniform, I think you will be hard-pressed (nice pun) to make that analogy fit.

No, I'm trying to say that there is a place and time for everything, and casual attire (I think it's hard for anyone to claim that leather is anything but casual attire) doesn't belong in the work place.

In another thread, a furloughed USAir pilot posted that when he was a USAir newhire, the company gave them the results of a study that questioned passengers about a variety of things, including uniform appearance. Apparently, by far, the passengers preferred a traditional appearance in their air line pilots.
 
This reminds me of the whole "business casual" phenomenon at many companies in America. For the past decade or so, companies have been going business casual to make the work environment more "inviting" and "comfortable.

Oh, please. Business casual is still the rule in a lot of offices these days. When was the last time you spent any time at say, Google or Cisco or Microsoft or....

And they ain't doing too badly.

You can go ahead and believe that you've got to dress in a coat and tie to be taken seriously but I can tell you as someone whose livelihood depends on figuring out people very quickly, the way they dress is a very poor indicator.

But don't let my experience of inking contracts with people worth hundreds of millions of dollars who were dressed in running shorts and t-shirts influence you.

It's irrelevant.

People who work hard work will do so whether they're dressed in shorts or a suit. People who don't will not.

If you think for one second that I didn't pursue clients as aggressively when I was business casual, well, all I can say is that if you look at the commission checks, I went after them harder.
 
This reminds me of the whole "business casual" phenomenon at many companies in America. For the past decade or so, companies have been going business casual to make the work environment more "inviting" and "comfortable." Now, years later, studies are coming out that are showing that productivity and efficiency are greatly reduced in offices that allow business casual attire. Offices that stick to traditional business attire are coming out way ahead in productivity. One study demonstrated a 3.6% drop in productivity in business casual environments. Another showed that over half of offices that recently instituted business casual policies observed a drop in productivity.

In general, too many Americans like to "dress down" at inappropriate times. When you're doing business, you need to look like it. When you're flying airplanes, you need to look like an air line pilot. The time to wear a leather jacket is when you're going out to the local bar, not when you're flying a multi-million dollar aircraft at work.

If you studied much about stats, and I didn't study much, you'd know that depending on how they're accomplished, surveys are accurate within +/- 3.0%, which would mean that a 3.6% drop in productivity might not actually be an accurate portrayal of what's occurring.

But that all depends on how the survey was done. A 100% accurate survey/study is nearly (if not completely impossible), so as far as I'm concerned, your statement is bunk. How was the study conducted? What were the questions? I know you don't have these answers, and I wouldn't be asking them if the number you quoted (and the chances of you remembering the number of 3.6% off the top of your head seems slim) was higher, indicating an actual trend downwards. A higher number would also tend to point towards the number not being spurious or ad hoc.

And that, my friend, is what I consider professionalism; an attention to detail and a full understanding of the words that are coming out of my mouth (or fingers). We're in an exacting business, and I'd much rather care to share a cockpit with somebody that knows what they're saying instead of making things up to serve an argument. Believe me, I know a lot about that one, and I think my most commonly used phrases in the cockpit are, "I'm not exactly sure" and, "I believe the answer is this, but let's look it up and double check if you don't agree so we can be sure here."

The leather jacked be damned, let's spend more time being accurate in our statements eh?

Further, on closer inspection of your post, you're equating 3.6% as coming out, "way ahead on productivity." Now, I didn't spend much time in college studying anything to do with numbers, but I DID spend a lot of time studying ########, and in my personal opinion 3.6% wouldn't qualify as being "way ahead."

But then again, I wear the blazer, trench coat and no hat.

Oh and I've really gotta add this: I don't know what we're all arguing about on this one. If you happen to look around the terminal one of these days, we ALL look like COMPLETE tools when we're compared to the Delta guys. I look like a kid playing dress up when I'm standing next to a Delta guy, who's in a tailored uniform and hat that makes it look like (s)he could have hopped off a Panzer and started belching orders in German. THOSE GUYS look good, the rest of us look like hacks.
 
Oh and I've really gotta add this: I don't know what we're all arguing about on this one. If you happen to look around the terminal one of these days, we ALL look like COMPLETE tools when we're compared to the Delta guys. I look like a kid playing dress up when I'm standing next to a Delta guy, who's in a tailored uniform and hat that makes it look like (s)he could have hopped off a Panzer and started belching orders in German. THOSE GUYS look good, the rest of us look like hacks.

Achtung, baby!

For me it's all about the hat:

View attachment 4461


That's why Southernjets will rule the world!!!


I always feel like an SS officer in my full uniform:

View attachment 4462

View attachment 4463



LOL!

Kevin


P.S. Don't tell anyone, but they wore leather too:

View attachment 4464
 
If you studied much about stats, and I didn't study much, you'd know that depending on how they're accomplished, surveys are accurate within +/- 3.0%, which would mean that a 3.6% drop in productivity might not actually be an accurate portrayal of what's occurring.

I'm not sure of the sample size, the methods used, etc... I'm merely citing a statistic in a study that was published a couple of years ago. If you search on google on this subject, you can find multiple such studies.

We're in an exacting business, and I'd much rather care to share a cockpit with somebody that knows what they're saying instead of making things up to serve an argument.
Just to be clear, are you actually accusing me of lying about this and just pulling a number out of my ass? The number came from a newspaper article that cited a study that was done a few years ago, and I found it with a simple google search. This subject has been discussed many times on CNBC, which is where I first heard about it.

Further, on closer inspection of your post, you're equating 3.6% as coming out, "way ahead on productivity." Now, I didn't spend much time in college studying anything to do with numbers, but I DID spend a lot of time studying ########, and in my personal opinion 3.6% wouldn't qualify as being "way ahead."
In terms of business and productivity, a 3.6% drop would definitely be considered significant. Businesses fret over fractions of a percent on productivity, inventory, profit margins, etc...

If you happen to look around the terminal one of these days, we ALL look like COMPLETE tools when we're compared to the Delta guys.
No argument there. Nothing compares to the DAL uniform.
 
I'm not sure of the sample size, the methods used, etc... I'm merely citing a statistic in a study that was published a couple of years ago. If you search on google on this subject, you can find multiple such studies.

Something more than your honorable word on an internet forum would be acceptable.

Just to be clear, are you actually accusing me of lying about this and just pulling a number out of my ass? The number came from a newspaper article that cited a study that was done a few years ago, and I found it with a simple google search. This subject has been discussed many times on CNBC, which is where I first heard about it.

I wouldn't say lying, but I would say pulling a number out of your ass (that's called an ad hoc argument, it means "from the hip," or without planning, if you will). And it would seem here that the article was published a few years ago, but you found it on google today. Didn't you say something about a newspaper? Oh right, the NEWSPAPER published the data, which was done a few years ago, which you located today. Righto, got you now (and I'm glad I did, because I think it took you three statements for me to get the story straight. Maybe I should start a rant about inefficient and inaccurate statements pilots make). I'm still going to fall back on my original statement that many surveys and studies have a sample error of +/- 3%, so I'll STILL say that the number indicates no trending. Or in other words the change is so small that it doesn't mean anything because it's not truly measurable and you'd be REALLY hard pressed to contribute a 3.6% decrease in anything at a company due to HOW YOU DRESS. I mean seriously.

In terms of business and productivity, a 3.6% drop would definitely be considered significant. Businesses fret over fractions of a percent on productivity, inventory, profit margins, etc...

No argument there. Nothing compares to the DAL uniform.

Glad we can agree on something. But please by all means, give me something to do while I'm sitting in the crashpad tonight! I'm over 2,000 miles away from my fiance because I'm such a hard ass about where I work (for now) and to add insult to injury it's puking fresh pow.
 
No I painted the picture by spending countless hours this past summer in the IAD International Terminal seeing the big international push and flight crews from many international carriers.

Also what composed this picture was the hundreds of times I ventured over to the BOS International Terminal, over the past two years, where they have the best food, during my time here at Colgan. Over there guess what I see??? International flight crews with blazers and jackets no matter what season it was.
Did you ever stop to think that they might have the same policy as the carriers here, that anyone doing international flying wears the hat and blazer? You stated that ALL European airlines wear the blazer, and I pointed out the fallacy in that statement by identifying a European airline that does not (Austria's Styrian Air). The rest of your post (and AirTran boy's) is opinion and conjecture.

Hey Hacker15E, better tell your bros that they should start wearing service dress when they fly if they want to consider themselves "professional pilots". :D
 
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