What's the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

It sounds like a start in AZ, I dont know if the same applies in FPR. All I know, is that when I was there, the instructors were scheduled back to back and one of my instructors refused to teach ANY ground because "thats what they should be teaching in your ground school." So, some of my questions were answered but if I had a question outside of ground school, it was usually explained extremely quickly if at all...I am not saying this happened all the time but it did happen on more than a few occasions. But its good to see that there has been at least one change after all the bitching and complaining.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

PanAmPilot...Where are you FL or AZ????? I am going to have to assume AZ cuz in FL, scheduling/admin whoever still doesn't have it right here with back to back flights for instructors and brief time but whatever.....
I am beginning to take sides here and agree especially after what FLdiver said....PAIFA does take credit where credit isn't due and it is almost like false advertising. I would hate to be on the outside looking in and not knowing the truth. And they do monitor....they read this, they know what is going on, it makes me kind of sad to think that noone will responde to you guys....maybe that would answer some questions. Instead, it just keeps going around and around...and it makes me think they are covering up...sorry bosses.....but how else does it look?
I'm really beginning to see what you guys are talking about and the frustration. Believe me, even being on the inside, all I want to do is go to work, do my job and enjoy it as much as I do without admin and the b.s....I have had 1 other job that I enjoyed as much as this. It's a wonderful thing when you can say you enjoy your job, but the reason I enjoy it so much is the students and the instructors, PERIOD. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't put up with it either!!!!
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

[ QUOTE ]
PanAmPilot...Where are you FL or AZ?????

[/ QUOTE ]

I am an instructor here in Phoenix. And I can honestly say that admin. here is really trying to do its best to please the customer. They have a couple more things to smooth out but at least they are making the effort.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

casaosa- that's the kind of attitude everyone should have! Keep up the good work!

Panampilot- Have you mentioned to the admin that it would benefit them to come on these forums and discuss concerns with potential students? To me that would be a huge step in the right direction!
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Hey PanAmPilot, I'm a former student from Pan Am, I left there back in December. One of the reasons I left was because the admin there was the biggest group of a-holes I had ever met. Needless to say I was a little taken aback when you said that admin at DVT actually try to please the customer. I never once saw a single admin there give a crap about what the students thought. However, with the things you have said in this thread, it appears as though maybe things are changing for the better. As much as I am disgusted with Pan Am, I would say that if they would just listen to the students and treat them with some respect(that every customer desreves), it would easily be the top flight school in the country. Assuming Pan Am is actually changing, do you think it has anything to do with Boles leaving?

In no way am I supporting Pan Am and its policies with this post, nor would I recomend any of my friends to go there, But for the sake of all the current and future students, I sincerely hope things are turning around for the better.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming Pan Am is actually changing, do you think it has anything to do with Boles leaving?

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't quite answer that question. The idea of changing the whole briefing time thing actually happened before Boles left. I really believe he had a lot of great ideas but he also had to report to a higher authority.

I think admin. are really trying to make things better. I have not personally told them to respond on this forum but I know Doug has. To be honest, I feel a little uncomfortable telling my bosses to defend themselves here. I should do it, but you never know what can happen in this industry when there are a whole lot of people willing to take your position as a flight instructor. I try to stay low on the radar so to speak. I will keep you updated on how things are changing here in Phoenix.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Keephopealive....Thank you, but it's because of you guys my attitude is sooo good!!!!
PAPilot, how are things changing in Phoenix? I would be interested in knowing what they are doing to better themselves because whatever Phoenix does, FPR follows suit, so maybe there is hope!!! I also think your right to keep your mouth shut, especially if they don't know who you are at this point. Admin knows whats going on here, they read it, they can responde if they so choose. Obviously they choose not too, their choice.
Thanks for the kind words guys....seems like we've all settled down a bit!!!
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Now that I am more than half way throught my training, I thought it would be a good idea to do some math...

1. I went over the private pilot estimate by 5 hours
(55 estimated) So I went over by about $600.

2. I finished time build right on time, as advertised.

3. I finished under the instrument rating estimate by 3 hours
so I saved about $350

4. I went over on the multi-engine rating estimate by 2 hours
costing me about $450

5. I finished CRM as advertised.

6. I finished the route program as advertised.

7. I finished ACE as advertised (flat rate for the course).

So I am over the estemate by only $700. I think that is pretty damn good. And I cant blame anyone but myself for going over on private and multi. I am staying very close to the estimate, even with those "outrageous" brief charges! And by now I know what my abilities are, and I can feel assured that I will finish very close to the estimate. I wonder how I did it? The way some of you guys are talking, I shouldn't have any money left at all.

Bottom line: Pan Am will give you what is advertised, but can you handle it?

The Turk.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Hey Turk-

Just out of curiousity- what are the advertised prices these days? Congrats on being so close to the estimated cost- I know it's tough.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Hey guys-

I'm going to close this thread over the weekend, package it up and email it to Pan Am.

After I close it, I'm going to delete it and then repost it with a response, if I'm able to get one from the school.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Hey Doug,

Please don’t take any offense to this. I think you have a great web site and are providing a valuable service to the aviation community. But it seems somewhat of a strange concept to me for Pan Am administration to make responses on this forum. And it’s not just Pan Am, it would be any business in any field. Does Delta Airlines respond to employee and customer complaints in a public web forum?

And don’t get me wrong, I would love to see their responses to many of the complaints that have been brought up here. For one, it would be interesting to hear their side of the story and like you say, possibly “put out fires”. But mostly these web forums have a way of attracting highly opinionated people leading to arguments of clashing opinions which have a way of escalating through “typed” word.

From what I’ve seen here, Pan Am does have some work to do in improving certain policies. But it also seems like there are quite a few success stories coming out of there too.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Doug,
I have to agree with Paul. I realize this is your website and you can do as you please (!!!!) but why waste your time and effort in sending this to Pan Am, it won't do any good. As I have previously stated, I know for a fact that some of admin read the threads. They obviously chose not to reply. Don't waste your energy my friend, it isn't worth it.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

I say do it, couldn't hurt. Maybe admin is reading this, but perhaps not the right admin.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Comair responded today. I think that's going to win them more respect than anything else for offering to step up, clear the air and talk. I respect the hell out of that.

Granted, large corporations don't work out problems in a public arena in general. However, aviation is a different beast entirely.

Aviation is more of a community and word of mouth can (and does) kill your credibility (or lack thereof: ATA) and eventually your business.

If we're able to get Pan Am to step up, put some of the flames out I think enough people would respond positively and everyone can win.

Lots of people in the pre-decision process read the forums, I get feedback ALL the time in email.

Can't blame a brother for trying!
smile.gif
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

[ QUOTE ]
Doug,
I have to agree with Paul. I realize this is your website and you can do as you please (!!!!) but why waste your time and effort in sending this to Pan Am, it won't do any good. As I have previously stated, I know for a fact that some of admin read the threads. They obviously chose not to reply. Don't waste your energy my friend, it isn't worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Primarily because no one else is. I don't want to sound like some self appointed czar, but this is probably the only forum community on the entire internet that actually gives a crap for student pilots.

I've got to fly with all you characters one day, I want you to show up skilled, happy and eager to get that gear up!
smile.gif
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Do it Doug. I think they should respond to these forums, because they lose so much business when they don't. I've seen people base their decisions on what is said here- and when they chose not to go to Pan Am then they lose money!
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

I say do it...I know the posts on this board combined with my visits to a number of schools (PanAM included) ultimately led to my decision not to go there.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

[ QUOTE ]
Do it Doug

[/ QUOTE ]

Great Mallrats movie quote ther keephope, I am sure Doug picked that one up right away since he is a big Kevin Smith fan.
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Mallrats was actually one of my least favorite Kevin Smith films! But I caught the reference!

(Asian design major?)
 
Re: What\'s the beef? *Pan Am Admin Please Read*

Keephopealive09,
The estimated cost for the total program is $55k and change.
 
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