What's better?? PIC Multi or SIC turbine?

Which would you take?

  • Cessna 402, part 121 PIC multi (30k/ yr, 8 days off a month)

    Votes: 19 33.3%

  • BeechJet 400, part 135 SIC multi turbine (40k/yr, 5 days off a month)

    Votes: 24 42.1%

  • ERJ, part 121 SIC multi turbine airline (20k/ yr, 12 days off month)

    Votes: 14 24.6%
  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .
PatrickDaniels

PatrickDaniels

Well-Known Member
Wondering the thoughts on the community.... What do you think is more valuable? PIC Multi for a 121 carrier in Cessna 402s or SIC turbine multi in light jets 135 or SIC Multi with 121 airline carrier in ERJs? The pay obviously is a factor for me but I'm getting other offer and not sure which way to start out... I have 3200 TT, 100 multi, 2900 PIC mostly in singles, 240 single turbine PIC, 60 SIC multi turbine...



Thanks!!
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say "All of the above."

Only speaking from personal experience, but my first flying job after instructing was for XJT, flying the ERJ as an FO. I did about a year there before being furloughed. When I hit the street, I had a little over 550 hours of jet time, which was the entire sum of my turbine experience. During my furlough, I got my ATP and flew 402s (probably the same 135 gig you're talking about), which provided me another 1500 hours of multi PIC, mostly single pilot, mostly in the northeast, in some rather challenging conditions. Naturally, I expected that future employers would brush off my Cape Air time as "just piston twin time," but in fact, the opposite happened.

That 402 time opened doors I wouldn't have ever expected possible. Instead of going back to XJT (or going to fly for another regional), I was sitting in interviews and 121 groundschools with guys I'd never thought I'd be competitive with, at companies I never thought I'd see without turbine PIC. In reality, that 402 time was huge, regardless of the types of motors attached to it. It was PIC time, and well, PIC is king.

I strongly encourage anyone with the opportunity to go fly for Cape Air (or similar operation) and build PIC time. Once you get a good amount of it on your resume, then go out and fly right seat somewhere. It will pay dividends later.

Actually, let me relate a story: A friend of mine was a Cape F/O, hired with about 400 hours. He flew the 402 for about 1000 hours, then right before going to upgrade, he got antsy and decided that he wanted to go fly for the regionals. I tried to talk him out of it, to convince him to at least get his ATP and do a year as PIC. Unfortunately, he did indeed leave the company, and now he's lost in the regional shuffle, uncompetitive to move on. As much as I've wanted to help him get out of the regionals, he simply can't do it; he doesn't have any PIC!

Seriously, PIC! Go fly the 402 for a year or two if you don't have a good base of 121/135 PIC already. It's not much time, you can go fly jets later, and it'll pay off in the long run.

P.S.: Don't get trapped in the "Pay/QOL" thing yet. Yes, that's very important...eventually. For now, you need to do work on your resume so that you can be competitive later on.
 
dasleben said:
I strongly encourage anyone with the opportunity to go fly for Cape Air (or similar operation) and build PIC time. Once you get a good amount of it on your resume, then go out and fly right seat somewhere. It will pay dividends later.
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This is an especially good idea if you are younger around the 23 years of age mark. If below the age of 23 go cargo and grab some PIC if you have 135 mins. Otherwise research and see if Cape Air or cargo is the better fit. I have personally never heard anything bad about Cape Air. The only reason we have Cape Air people at AMF is because they want/need some turbine PIC time and the ATR wasn't an option for them at Cape Air.

Then again, CFIs should have a ton of PIC at 1500TT. Still doesn't hurt to grab some PIC at a 135 carrier first as some airlines may look at CFI PIC time differently than normal PIC time. Airlineapps.com actually has you separate the CFI time out of the PIC. Not an issue for regionals but could play a factor with mainline stuff.
 
I'd say SIC in the Jet, Thats what im doing, So far this year ive been to every corner of the good ole US, and usually had at least a day to get out and do things, a weekend in West Palm Beach, 4 days in LA, ect ect ect. a lot of adventure and almost always going different places with charter.
 
Maurus said:
Then again, CFIs should have a ton of PIC at 1500TT.
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You're right: CFI time, while valuable, is not quite the same. Pilots should really seek PIC that's more applicable to the professional flying environment, i.e. operating in all weather conditions, etc.

It bears repeating: PIC, PIC, PIC. If there's only one thing I could potentially convince anyone of, it's the benefit of PIC.
 
Whichever gives you the most pay + the most time away from work. IMHO, the industry will move when its ready to, and I'd rather have a little less PIC time and be a member of my family than mindlessly logging PIC. Additionally, networking is what will get you ahead of the game more than PIC. Just my .02
 
turbomax97 said:
Whichever gives you the most pay + the most time away from work. IMHO, the industry will move when its ready to, and I'd rather have a little less PIC time and be a member of my family than mindlessly logging PIC. Additionally, networking is what will get you ahead of the game more than PIC. Just my .02
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Pretty much why I said to go for PIC if you are young. It could give you what you need to excel faster. dasleben is an example of this. He got his 757/767 type and overseas experience at a young age. His 402 time + some RJ SIC played a large role in the decision to hire him from what I recall. Obviously older people will have a greater chance of having a family and the obligation to be with them. It really depends on circumstances.
 
dasleben said:
You're right: CFI time, while valuable, is not quite the same. Pilots should really seek PIC that's more applicable to the professional flying environment, i.e. operating in all weather conditions, etc.

It bears repeating: PIC, PIC, PIC. If there's only one thing I could potentially convince anyone of, it's the benefit of PIC.
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I do about 50/50 CFI'ing/PIC flying, can't agree more, both are valuable, and very much different. Not the same operations I do for sure, but agree totally that PIC experience will pay dividends later.
 
Maurus said:
Pretty much why I said to go for PIC if you are young. It could give you what you need to excel faster. dasleben is an example of this. He got his 757/767 type and overseas experience at a young age. His 402 time + some RJ SIC played a large role in the decision to hire him from what I recall. Obviously older people will have a greater chance of having a family and the obligation to be with them. It really depends on circumstances.
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Naturally, networking played a crucial role in all that, but all the interviewers I've run into count that 402 PIC time as valuable time, as well. Much more so than expected, actually. I still have a gaping hole in my resume (0 hours of TPIC), but I don't have any plans to leave where I'm at unless they kick me out, anyway.

I just caution guys (and this doesn't necessarily apply to the OP, since he does have a good amount of PIC already) to not get too carried away with the "Pay/QOL/seniority" thing with a light resume. Good regionals come and good regionals go, but bickering about whose CBA is better, ALPA vs. Teamsters, etc., doesn't mean much if you're not competitive to move on to better jobs. Pilots should flesh out their resumes first, then go shopping for the jobs that match all of that criteria.
 
N519AT said:
What are your career goals? Airline? Corporate?
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Career goals were corporate but now I'm thinking charter or airlines.... Both have +/-'s..... Pic wise I have 2900 but its nearly all single PIC but still PIC... I'm highly leaning on the 135 beechjet gig mostly for the pay and still getting jet multi... With only 100 multi it's time to build that no matter how I can get it...
 
PatrickDaniels said:
Wondering the thoughts on the community.... What do you think is more valuable? PIC Multi for a 121 carrier in Cessna 402s or SIC turbine multi in light jets 135 or SIC Multi with 121 airline carrier in ERJs? The pay obviously is a factor for me but I'm getting other offer and not sure which way to start out... I have 3200 TT, 100 multi, 2900 PIC mostly in singles, 240 single turbine PIC, 60 SIC multi turbine...



Thanks!!
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They are all of equal value; i.e. worthless. None of them will put food in your stomach, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back.

This is a mistake I think a lot of people make. They go into a job with their eye on the exit; on the next step, ignoring the possibility that the next step may never come. You're better off evaluating the position on its own merits, not what you think it may lead to down the road.

In my opinion, the answer you seek is found in the the answers to these questions, in this order:
1) Will the job provide food, clothing, shelter?
2) Will it allow you to save money for the future?
3) Will the job provide opportunities for professional growth and development?
4) Will it provide a quality of life that you find acceptable?

Some might argue with me over the order of #3 and #4. To each their own. I find that #3 tends to lead to improvements in #4. YMMV.
 
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