What would you do?

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As a practical matter, I'd adhere to my existing clearance as I would in a typical lost comm situation, deviating only if I broke out into VMC someplace along the way that offered me someplace (an airport) to land safely.

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I'm not exactly seeing the reasoning behind this. In my mind, even if you have a handheld GPS onboard, clearance be damned. Your number one priority is to find VMC any way you can. Could you clarify?

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I think he was referring to lost comm only, not lost nav in addition. While a lost comm is not really an emergency when on a filed IFR flight, and you are expected to continue to your destination airport (which will be held open for 30 mins after your arrival time), you should remain VMC if you encounter VMC and land at the nearest airport. This is where having appropriate VFR charts with you is important.
 
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How about the 172 in California that was caught "on-top" and was finally radar IDd 110 NM out to sea?

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That one scared me until an instructor and I were caught on top of a layer that was forcasted to break up, but didn't, so he showed me how to triangulate using VOR's and a sectional to find out exactly where you are.

(of course, for the posted hypothetical situation, that wouldn't work.....
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he said, now paying attention in class....
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)
 
Lets just put it this way, it would suck to be in that situation, I say make a straight line for the last reported highest ceiling, descend (given you have the ability to do so). And then on out, look visually for the safest place to land. Also, there was a website someone posted recently of abandoned/forgotten airports. Look at those before a flight, there's quite a few.
 
I was referring to both lost comm and lost nav.

If you're in IMC, with no comm capability, how exactly are you going to go about finding VMC "any way you can"? Divining rod? What if there's no VMC to be found? Presuming you're *in* IMC when you lose your nav/com (and probably your transponder as well, if we're talking an electrical failure--the most likely scenario), deviating from your clearance in hopes of finding VMC someplace is downright foolhardy since the only airspace ATC will protect is the airspace you're *supposed* to be in. You greatly overestimate ATC radar capability if you think they'll track your skin paint and keep people out of your way as you head off in some other direction.

To my thinking, lost comm and lost nav is not a true safety of flight issue if you've got some means of backup nav available like GPS. It'd be nerve-wracking, sure, but as long as your vacuum instruments hold up, it's doable. If necessary, it's even possible to fly a nonprecision-esque approach with a handheld GPS, though that becomes a riskier proposition with a non-aviation unit. I was about to say that if you lose electrical and vacuum in IMC, it's probably time to kiss your ass goodbye (at least, if you're over anyplace where terrain avoidance is an issue; over Iowa or Kansas, it's probably not a big deal to descend until you see dirt), but one of the writers for AvWeb demonstrated (with a safety pilot) the ability to fly solely by reference to the panel display on the Garmin 196. It wasn't pretty, but it could save your life in a pinch.

I agree that if you break out into VMC someplace along your route and can maintain VFR, do it and land where you can. But in IMC, your only assurance of empty sky ahead of you is to stick to your clearance.
 
Sorry, but I still disagree.

First off, I mean "any way you can" as a simplified way of saying that you should use all resources available to you to find VMC. A good instrument pilot should know the general direction of VMC on any IFR flight. I pointed out a solid way to determine this in my first post on this thread. If you haven't read it, please do.

As for continuing on your clearance, this becomes a debate between whether it's safer to make a bee-line for VMC, or try to shoot a nonprecision-esque approach with a handheld GPS. I personally side with the former. If the whole area is socked-in, do you think that most people are flying off-route? Certainly there's the /G crowd, but for the most part, people are flying airways. Assuming I've lost my nav/comms away from a terminal area, my best course of action is to get away from the airway system, and get to an "off" altitude above the OROCA (for example, 8300). Since there'd be no VFR traffic out at this point, 8500 would probably be acceptable too. Flying with lost nav/comms is always going to be risky, and you should be looking to minimize the dangers, not looking for a guarantee.

I do also disagree with your thoughts that lost nav/comms is not a true safety of flight issue if you have a backup nav source like a handheld GPS. On the contrary, it seems to me that this is very much an emergency situation, and should be dealt with as such. If you're operating with a non-aviation approved handheld, this is an especially dangerous situation.
 
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Put it down on the beach and wait for the FAA.

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If you are close to a bar, I'd hang out there while I waited.
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Flying with lost nav/comms is always going to be risky, and you should be looking to minimize the dangers, not looking for a guarantee.


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Huh? Are you really saying that venturing out of protected airspace in IMC without nav/comm capability is minimizing the danger? Sorry, but that's just stupid in my book. You're suggesting that it's safer to fly where there MIGHT not be any traffic than where there WON'T be any traffic. This suggests that you might not have a complete grasp of the measures ATC takes when an aircraft on an IFR flight plan goes NORDO. The airspace you're supposed to be in will most assuredly be clear, with a wide berth around it.

There may also be times when you don't have the fuel or the aircraft performance to go chasing after "possible" VMC. If the tops are in the flight levels, climbing in most normally-aspirated engines isn't an option. If you're over anything other than flat terrain, descending til you find VMC isn't a prudent option either. In winter, IMC is rarely a localized phenomenon; large storm systems can cause entire regions to be IMC and you may not have the range to reach VMC. Remember, the failure scenario could happen at any point in the flight.

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I do also disagree with your thoughts that lost nav/comms is not a true safety of flight issue if you have a backup nav source like a handheld GPS. On the contrary, it seems to me that this is very much an emergency situation, and should be dealt with as such.

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Of course it's an emergency situation; I never said it wasn't. What I said was that it may not be a true safety of flight situation. To my thinking, "safety of flight" means anything that will disrupt the aircraft's ability to continue flying: collision with terrain or other aircraft, fire, mechanical failure, pilot's physical condition. While an electrical failure is certainly an emergency, the aircraft should continue to fly just fine.

I also disagree with you that a non-FAA-approved GPS is "especially dangerous" when used in an emergency. The only thing a KLN89B has that my Garmin doesn't is RAIM capability. Relying on it in a pinch is far less of a risk in my mind than blundering into unprotected airspace in IMC, hoping that there won't be anyone in my way.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
I would have to say if I have the fuel I would fly towards the best wx with the highest cielings available. If you are in a area that has a large body of water near by and it isn't hard IFR I would go out over the water and descend to I was VMC. If able then make my way back to an airport.

I am not sure I'd agree with the person who suggested heading to a TFR. Sure you will get an escort or maybe a rocket or two sent your direction. You have two big problems with that. 1: you can communicate with the fighters. 2: you still can't shoot an approach to get back down. I don't think they are going to let you fly an approach in formation.

Hopefully I will have tranciever, GPS or cell phone with me.

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