What would you do?

[flyguy]

There is an argument that if they fly jets, they want to see jet time, but I think a stronger agument is, they need captains to fly those jets, so PIC time is also valuable. I would guess (just a guess) that at most carriers, PIC turboprop time is going to be more valuable than SIC jet time.

 

[mrivc211]

As a very wise old aviator once told me, the pecking order goes:

1. PIC Jet
2. PIC TP
3. SIC Jet
4. SIC TP

 

[mrivc211]

The previous poster was right, it doesn't matter what time you have, as long as you meet the mins and know the right person, thats all it takes.

We've more guys than I can count get hired onto FEDEX/UPS/Southwest/Alaska straight from the Bro.

I love flying it, but the only two things I'm getting tired of is having to instruct in it all the time, and the loud ass props. My Bose broke last month.

 

[DE727UPS]

"but the only two things I'm getting tired of is having to instruct in it all the time"

Now you know how a Capt at Gulfstream feels.

 

[jtrain609]

Because they are the only legacy actually hiring????

Who cares, they're not the only mainline carrier hiring. Who cares if you get hired into a legacy or not; they all pay the same, and in fact Southwest is paying more than the legacy carriers anyways.

If you want to use the argument that we need to get with the program and sell our souls to fly an RJ, then you've gotta get with the program and realize that the legacy carriers are, for the most part, the place to NOT be right now.

 

[Stone Cold]

The previous poster was right, it doesn't matter what time you have...

You were the previous poster.

 

[wheelsup]

If you want to use the argument that we need to get with the program and sell our souls to fly an RJ, then you've gotta get with the program and realize that the legacy carriers are, for the most part, the place to NOT be right now.

I never was trying to use an argument to infer people go to a jet. Read my posts; don't put words in my mouth, please. People asked how companies value turboprop vs. jet and instead of guessing I pointed out that it appears CAL values jet more. That is all .

In the same way if someone asked if 121 time is more valuable then 135 time one could point to Airtran and their 500 PIC 121 requirement. Or Jetblue's >18,000# aircraft requirement, shutting 1900 drivers out. Is it an indication of the industry as a whole? No, not at all, I agree.

And I agree, the legacies aren't the best place to be NOW. In 5 years? 10 years? Who knows.

 

[jdflight]

Omar, just stay where you are. The jet isn't all that cool, and you'll have to instruct just as much there as you do in the Bro. Why take two months off line for class when you're trying to build PIC time quickly? That's 200 hours if you're working hard! You and I have both seen plenty of our guys go from the Bro to the majors. Enjoy the QOL while you have it.

 

[kellwolf]

I don't know where this hype about needing jet time got started. Is there a jet column in your logbook? 'Cause there isn't one in mine.

Um, didn't you have to make a column for dual given in that log book?

And isn't CAL the ONLY major that doesn't require turbine or turbine PIC time? FedEx, UPS, Southwest, Fontier, Alaska and AirTran all require some amount of turbine PIC eh? So why try to use the ONE company (with a HORRIBLE contract as far as mainline company's go) that doesn't require turbine PIC as the standard by which you'll judge what is quality time and what isn't?

Airtran (from website)
* Fixed wing flight time - 2500 hours
* Multi-engine, fixed wing flight time - 1000 hours
* 121 PIC or military equivalent - 500 hours
* An ATP certificate, or successful completion of the ATP written exam
* Current First Class Medical certificate
* Valid passport
* Legally eligible for employment in the United States
* Free of felony convictions within the most recent 10 years

Alaska (from website)
Experience: Minimum of 3000 hours total pilot time in fixed wing aircraft. Minimum 1000 PIC hours in multi-engine (turbojet/ turboprop) aircraft or single-engine high performance military jet or 750 hours PIC in multi-engine (turbojet/ turboprop) and 2000 hours SIC in multi-engine (turbojet/ turboprop) aircraft or single-engine high performance military jet. Minimum 50 hours flown within the last 12 months.

Frontier (from website)
* Total fixed wing time to exceed 2,500 hours
* Multi-engine fixed wing time in excess of 1,500 hours
* 500 hours pilot in command
* 500 hours jet (turbo-jet or turbo prop)
* ATP
* FCC license
* Authorized to work in the United States
* Must be able to travel in and out of the U.S. to all cities/countires served by Frontier Airlines
* Current FAA First Class medical
* Ability to work weekends, nights, shifts, holidays and overnight trips
* Ability to relocate
* Possess a U.S. passport

UPS (from website)
*
Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total fixed-wing pilot time
*
Have a minimum of 1000 hours pilot in command (PIC) hours in fixed-wing jet and/or fixed-wing multi-engine turboprop

FedEx (from website)
1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof, including a minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof.

So, while John is MOSTLY correct, he's not ENTIRELY correct. Airtran has no PIC requirement, and Alaska has one that's about as confusing as CAL's (including SIC time in the turbine as well). So, now you've got a major that has a MUCH better contract than CAL with similar requirements. Granted, you probably won't get in there without some connections, but the same is true of CAL. Interesting that a lot of these guys have tossed "multi-engine" in front of turbine. I know a couple of FOs at SWA that got there through the Caravan route. Guess that's going away now.

Personally, I'd stick with the EMB for now. If you've got the QOL, enjoy it. You never know when you'll have it again. The one thing that rubs me the wrong way on this thread is how offended the TP guys get sometimes. We're not saying your a/c sucks or that you don't know how to fly, so don't take it that way. Every a/c has it's challenges, and everyone of them is different. I'm sure there's things that CRJ operators have a hard time with that B1900 guys find a breeze in their plane. Let's not let this turn into a "I can slow faster than you" thread.....

 

[jtrain609]

Find me a 121 operator that is still operating with recip. aircraft and I'll agree with you on AirTran. If they want 121 PIC time, it's going to be turboprop or turbojet, but it doesn't say which and it doesn't matter.

And I didn't have to write in a new column, I had to buy a new logbook! I ran outta columns in my old logbook.

 

[Bluto]

I love flying it, but the only two things I'm getting tired of is having to instruct in it all the time...

Dude, Omar, you realize they have newhires in the jet, too, right? Also, keep in mind, until you have the PIC time to go where you want, bidding the jet will delay building that time by around 2.5 months after all your training is done. (10 sim sessions!?) The jet transition is a freaking marathon and takes FOREVER. Why are you worried about it? Your seat-lock's not up for another 4-5 months anyway, right?

p.s. You paid $1,000 for a headset and they won't fix it for you?

p.p.s What I'd do: Get 1300 TPIC in the Bro. (I want to go to Southwest), Spend life savings (and then some) on a 737-type rating. Attend Airinc, OBAP, WIA, Aviation Interviews, etc. Career Fairs. Network. If you don't get any bites right away, continue with these steps while bidding the Jet for the cushy life-style, monster pay-checks and adoration of countless hordes of adoring fans while patiently waiting for interviews.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

So, now you've got a major that has a MUCH better contract than CAL with similar requirements.

Okay...before this thread I had never heard that CAL had a bad contract. Someone wanna break it down to me and explain why exactly CAL has such a bad contract and surmise the language in said contract.

Also if CO has such a bad contract then why are people climbing over one another to get there.

Edit: Ignore the last question I can figure it out. "It's a major 111oneoneone!!!111oneone111!!!"

 

[mrivc211]

Dude, Omar, you realize they have newhires in the jet, too, right? Also, keep in mind, until you have the PIC time to go where you want, bidding the jet will delay building that time by around 2.5 months after all your training is done. (10 sim sessions!?) The jet transition is a freaking marathon and takes FOREVER. Why are you worried about it? Your seat-lock's not up for another 4-5 months anyway, right?

p.s. You paid $1,000 for a headset and they won't fix it for you?

p.p.s What I'd do: Get 1300 TPIC in the Bro. (I want to go to Southwest), Spend life savings (and then some) on a 737-type rating. Attend Airinc, OBAP, WIA, Aviation Interviews, etc. Career Fairs. Network. If you don't get any bites right away, continue with these steps while bidding the Jet for the cushy life-style, monster pay-checks and adoration of countless hordes of adoring fans while patiently waiting for interviews.

Yeah- that was my thought as well. My friend keeps bugging me about going to the jet with him. But I"m now bidding 19 out of 34, getting weekends off, and finally starting to enjoy life with friends again. According to him, the majors will use no jet time as an excuse. I am seatlocked until Feb too. But since they award 2-3 months in advance, that wouldnt put it that far from now.

My bose broke during the taxi to 25R, and I had to literally use tape to keep it on my head. The tapes glue got on the headset and I havent found time to remove the glue before sending it in.

I'm not really into going to the jet, because its "the Jet", I just want to add the the ole resume. But your right Jon, I'm a few hundred hours away from 1000 and going to the jet would only delay that.

 

[kellwolf]

Find me a 121 operator that is still operating with recip. aircraft and I'll agree with you on AirTran. If they want 121 PIC time, it's going to be turboprop or turbojet, but it doesn't say which and it doesn't matter.

Is Cape Air 121?

 

[kellwolf]

Okay...before this thread I had never heard that CAL had a bad contract. Someone wanna break it down to me and explain why exactly CAL has such a bad contract and surmise the language in said contract.

Also if CO has such a bad contract then why are people climbing over one another to get there.

Edit: Ignore the last question I can figure it out. "It's a major 111oneoneone!!!111oneone111!!!"

A major with a less than stellar contract (I don't see CAL's as "bad" per say) is better than most regionals out there. For me, it's a question of stability. Even with their contract, CAL pilots aren't worried about Compass, Mesaba or Republic replacing them totally....

 

[jtrain609]

Is Cape Air 121?

Hmm.....good question, I don't know. Their either 121 or scheduled 135.

Turn on your instant messanger!

EDIT: Looks like they have both certificates, so I'm not sure how they operate. The ATR's are going to be on the 121 certificate, but the 402's could be on as scheduled 135 operations, which would free up their rest requirements a little bit and get rid of the need for a real dispatcher.

 

[jtrain609]

A major with a less than stellar contract (I don't see CAL's as "bad" per say) is better than most regionals out there. For me, it's a question of stability. Even with their contract, CAL pilots aren't worried about Compass, Mesaba or Republic replacing them totally....

But USAir guys are!

 

[pilot602]

Ie mostly turboprop background vs. jet background
applied, interviewed, and hired

Not really a fair comparison as how many turboprops are really left flying out there compared to RJs. Six years ago a 1900 was a pretty common "regional" aircraft ... now it's a rarity.

Obviously there will be more RJ hires then Turbo simply because there are far more RJs flying around out there.

 

[Seggy]

The one thing that rubs me the wrong way on this thread is how offended the TP guys get sometimes. We're not saying your a/c sucks or that you don't know how to fly, so don't take it that way. Every a/c has it's challenges, and everyone of them is different. I'm sure there's things that CRJ operators have a hard time with that B1900 guys find a breeze in their plane. Let's not let this turn into a "I can slow faster than you" thread.....

Kell, why don't you come with me to Dulles or HPN one day at night and see how they treat a 1900 there when they are holding the gate for the 50 seat RJ. Operationally, stations don't like us as we don't hold that many and are treated like •! on a daily basis. A gate supervisor once called the Massport police on me in May and wanted to charge me with stealing the water out of the catering cabinet. I was dying of thirst. He said I should have bought the water in the terminal. Or stand outside in the -10 below windchill waiting for the PAX to board, or stand outside on the 120 degree ramp waiting for the PAX to board. Or when shooting an ILS and you get a tap on the shoulder from a PAX who needs to use the bathroom or...

It is MY choice to stay were I am at, so I really can't complain to much. However, we are a little protective when guys get on our case on how we should, "...go to an RJ because that is what majors want to see."

On these boards it doesn't happen, every one is treated equally.

But on the line, is another story. The only respect we get are from guys who have been in our shoes.

 

[wheelsup]

Not really a fair comparison as how many turboprops are really left flying out there compared to RJs. Six years ago a 1900 was a pretty common "regional" aircraft ... now it's a rarity.

Obviously there will be more RJ hires then Turbo simply because there are far more RJs flying around out there.

Excellent point -

which, in my post, I mentioned I wanted it in percentages, not just hard numbers. It would put it on an even playing field.

Ie if 500 Turboprop CA's and 1000 Jet CA's applied, 450 turboprop CA's were called to interview (90%), and only 800 Jet CA's called to interview (80%), then the edge goes to the TP guys.

When interviewing, if 100 out of 450 TP guys were "hired" (22.2%), and 250 jet CA's were hired (31.2%), then the edge goes to the jet in that area.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to discrediting the myth. Obviously the above numbers are completely fabricated.