What would you do, and why? 121 vs 135...

TexasFlyer

TexasFlyer

Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
After nearly 7 years of not touching an aircraft due to loss of medical, I got my medical back. Feeling grateful for two possible opportunities already. But so different from one another...

1) Envoy. Literally my first choice place out of all regionals. Direct Entry Captain. Live an hour from TPA but will be 6+ years of reserve I am told! I will not move from TPA so I'd have to commute to DFW or PHX (MIA is so senior I won't count on that anytime soon). Anyone want to chime in on this QOL I would have and how often I could get home realistically?

2) FlexJet. Never gave it a thought until the phone range. Heard 135 in general will work you to death if not at the right one. I see a lot of random info on them, but nothing recent about their QOL. 8/6 schedule it appears and they make it sound like they are a class act and really take care of the pilots. Anyone here tell me about the QOL at Flexjet in 2024? And what is the usual work week like? 135 regs can be brutal if they like to maximize work and minimize rest on those 8 days.

Looking for thoughts in general on the QOL in 2024 onward from what you all see/ hear on each and how it comes into play with me living in TPA.

Thanks ya'll...
 
Isn't Flexjet 91(k)? That's not quite the same thing as 135. Generally worse if you hate flying (and I do), but more predictable. Anyway, what's the ultimate goal? If you're looking to get Teh Majors, you'll have an easier path by slogging it out in the Regional trenches (or so I'm told). If it's a place to stay and feather your nest, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that you're better off with Flex.

In the extrapolated market, though, you could wind up anywhere, if you wanted to. What are your priorities?
 
Nice they offered DEC but having not flown in 7 years? Interested in comments on that. That's a 121 airline checkride and IOE. After not flying for 7 years. Can't remember what you did before but I wouldn't just assume that's going to be easy or a given. Again, defer to those in the know. As to the QOL. Commuting to reserve for 6 years at a regional would be a special kind of hell unless your willing to buy a condo there and consider it a second residence. Then it would depend on how hard they work you. Could be a decent deal if you only work half the time and don't mind paying for a second home. I'm not talkin crashpad. For me, it would be a second home for it to work out which means investing in a second home. If you don't mind crashpad, then more power to you. If you are going to work 20 out of 20 days on reserve, then I'd look at other options. QOL would be awful.
 
First off, congratulations getting the medical back.

As the tide ebbs and flows, so does the industry, and today is no different. No, the pilot shortage isn't over - it isn't crashing down, but more along the lines of stabilizing. Okay, aside from Spirit, but that is a nuanced situation (NEO engines, attrition, etc.). Where ever you go, you may be there for a bit, the days of a quick lap and moving on to the next job may be over for now. Recruiting is cooling off, and you could end up being a little stagnant until the tide shifts again.

With that being said, you need to go somewhere just to get back in the cockpit and current, all while considering where you want to end up. As others have said, if you desire long term employment at a major, then go 121. The sooner the better. Nothing looks better on the application to a 121 recruiter than presently being a 121 pilot in some capacity.

Charter... if you haven't done it before, and strictly been in the regional world, you're in for a surprise. A lot of surprises. It can be a lot of fun, diverse destinations, and challenging flying, but the key is operational culture. Many shops don't let you pump the breaks when safety concerns surface, the old "we're going anyway" mentality. But if management understands that and doesn't penalize you for a safety time out when necessary, it can be great. Plenty of cool flying; Aspen, Telluride, circling at Teterboro, Heber City, Bozeman, and the not so glamorous places like Naples, White Plains and Bedford, MA.

If you don't know much about FlexJet, a representative from there made an appearance on this podcast and it'll help answer some questions you might have.

Podcast Player | 21.Five Podcast

Listen to every episode of the 21.Five Professional Pilots Podcast
www.21fivepodcast.com www.21fivepodcast.com

Also, if you are not already familiar Silver Airways is hiring and has a Tampa base.


Having options is always a great position to be in. Good luck, we're all counting on you.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Isn't Flexjet 91(k)? That's not quite the same thing as 135. Generally worse if you hate flying (and I do), but more predictable. Anyway, what's the ultimate goal? If you're looking to get Teh Majors, you'll have an easier path by slogging it out in the Regional trenches (or so I'm told). If it's a place to stay and feather your nest, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that you're better off with Flex.

In the extrapolated market, though, you could wind up anywhere, if you wanted to. What are your priorities?
Click to expand...
PRIORITY 1: Keep enjoying my island lifestyle on the little barrier island I live on in Tampa Bay
PRIORITY 2: Fly where I am offered a good quality of life long term that supports Priority 1
PRIORITY 3: Work for a company that will not have constant 10 to 14 hour work days pushing rest limits on a regular basis, I want to enjoy the flying and not stress over the possibility of getting burned out

That's it.
 
DE727UPS said:
Nice they offered DEC but having not flown in 7 years? Interested in comments on that. That's a 121 airline checkride and IOE. After not flying for 7 years. Can't remember what you did before but I wouldn't just assume that's going to be easy or a given. Again, defer to those in the know. As to the QOL. Commuting to reserve for 6 years at a regional would be a special kind of hell unless your willing to buy a condo there and consider it a second residence. Then it would depend on how hard they work you. Could be a decent deal if you only work half the time and don't mind paying for a second home. I'm not talkin crashpad. For me, it would be a second home for it to work out which means investing in a second home. If you don't mind crashpad, then more power to you. If you are going to work 20 out of 20 days on reserve, then I'd look at other options. QOL would be awful.
Click to expand...
I have about 2000 hours of 121 time as an FO from 2014 to 2018. Then have not flown since.

I asked the recruiter if it's possible to come in as an FO for the first 250 hours and then upgrade to Captain as that would be a rapid, but smooth transition. Versus taking me who has not flown since March of 2018 right into Direct Captain. Piedmont actually has a program for this and supports it. Envoy seemed not sure, but did say they have some extra training for those coming in that are way out of recency of experience.
 
TexasFlyer said:
PRIORITY 1: Keep enjoying my island lifestyle on the little barrier island I live on in Tampa Bay
PRIORITY 2: Fly where I am offered a good quality of life long term that supports Priority 1
PRIORITY 3: Work for a company that will not have constant 10 to 14 hour work days pushing rest limits on a regular basis, I want to enjoy the flying and not stress over the possibility of getting burned out

That's it.
Click to expand...
You might consider Frontier with priorities 1 and 3. It isn’t for everyone, and things aren’t perfect there, but it might be worth looking. They have a TPA base. There are a few Frontier people on this board, and a considerable number on Reddit; you might send up the BatSignal and get some info.

Notice I have a hard time straight up recommending it, take that for what it’s worth :rolleyes:
 
TexasFlyer said:
PRIORITY 1: Keep enjoying my island lifestyle on the little barrier island I live on in Tampa Bay
PRIORITY 2: Fly where I am offered a good quality of life long term that supports Priority 1
PRIORITY 3: Work for a company that will not have constant 10 to 14 hour work days pushing rest limits on a regular basis, I want to enjoy the flying and not stress over the possibility of getting burned out

That's it.
Click to expand...

Commuting to reserve isn't conducive to priority #1, and every company will work you to limits which negates #3. Unless you seek employment at a 91 operation, where the flight department isn't required to turn a profit.
 
CFI A&P said:
First off, congratulations getting the medical back.

As the tide ebbs and flows, so does the industry, and today is no different. No, the pilot shortage isn't over - it isn't crashing down, but more along the lines of stabilizing. Okay, aside from Spirit, but that is a nuanced situation (NEO engines, attrition, etc.). Where ever you go, you may be there for a bit, the days of a quick lap and moving on to the next job may be over for now. Recruiting is cooling off, and you could end up being a little stagnant until the tide shifts again.

With that being said, you need to go somewhere just to get back in the cockpit and current, all while considering where you want to end up. As others have said, if you desire long term employment at a major, then go 121. The sooner the better. Nothing looks better on the application to a 121 recruiter than presently being a 121 pilot in some capacity.

Charter... if you haven't done it before, and strictly been in the regional world, you're in for a surprise. A lot of surprises. It can be a lot of fun, diverse destinations, and challenging flying, but the key is operational culture. Many shops don't let you pump the breaks when safety concerns surface, the old "we're going anyway" mentality. But if management understands that and doesn't penalize you for a safety time out when necessary, it can be great. Plenty of cool flying; Aspen, Telluride, circling at Teterboro, Heber City, Bozeman, and the not so glamorous places like Naples, White Plains and Bedford, MA.

If you don't know much about FlexJet, a representative from there made an appearance on this podcast and it'll help answer some questions you might have.

Podcast Player | 21.Five Podcast

Listen to every episode of the 21.Five Professional Pilots Podcast
www.21fivepodcast.com www.21fivepodcast.com

Also, if you are not already familiar Silver Airways is hiring and has a Tampa base.


Having options is always a great position to be in. Good luck, we're all counting on you.
Click to expand...
I met with Silver at Sun N Fun. They said they are not hiring at the moment, although the position is listed as active as they are "collecting resumes" for the next hiring cycle. The DO and Recruiter were great folks. And there is also a new undisclosed airframe coming to them "soon". That's all he could disclose on new aircraft.

Thanks for the video link!
 
roundout said:
You might consider Frontier with priorities 1 and 3. It isn’t for everyone, and things aren’t perfect there, but it might be worth looking. They have a TPA base. There are a few Frontier people on this board, and a considerable number on Reddit; you might send up the BatSignal and get some info.

Notice I have a hard time straight up recommending it, take that for what it’s worth :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I spoke to them at Sun N Fun and was told hiring is slowed (maybe paused) for awhile.
 
CFI A&P said:
Commuting to reserve isn't conducive to priority #1, and every company will work you to limits which negates #3. Unless you seek employment at a 91 operation, where the flight department isn't required to turn a profit.
Click to expand...
Part 91 is tough, as is quite a few places. UPS and Net Jets dinged me within seconds of applying. Most likely due to 0 time in the last 30, 60, 90 days and 0 time in the last 12 months and pretty much 0 time in the 6 years. I'll have about 10 hours by the end of next week and be current again, but that really doesn't move the needle on application filters. So this could be, get in where I can and maybe keep options open for the future so my priorities can eventually be met. Just may have to "pay my dues" again since starting over. And that's okay. That's aviation.
 
The market has slowed from the peak, so anything you read on the interwebs is probably obsolete. Even stuff last week.

All recruiters lie. It is in the job description. I wouldn't believe the commas in their emails unless backed up by 2 or 3 dependable sources.

Going from not current to DEC is not a recipe for success.

I'd go get some right seat turbine time. That and a recent checkride under your belt will open doors.
 
TexasFlyer said:
PRIORITY 1: Keep enjoying my island lifestyle on the little barrier island I live on in Tampa Bay
PRIORITY 2: Fly where I am offered a good quality of life long term that supports Priority 1
PRIORITY 3: Work for a company that will not have constant 10 to 14 hour work days pushing rest limits on a regular basis, I want to enjoy the flying and not stress over the possibility of getting burned out

That's it.
Click to expand...
@🦈💜

She’s not at Envoy but she’ll probably have some insight as a DEC at a regional.
 
TexasFlyer said:
After nearly 7 years of not touching an aircraft due to loss of medical, I got my medical back. Feeling grateful for two possible opportunities already. But so different from one another...

1) Envoy. Literally my first choice place out of all regionals. Direct Entry Captain. Live an hour from TPA but will be 6+ years of reserve I am told! I will not move from TPA so I'd have to commute to DFW or PHX (MIA is so senior I won't count on that anytime soon). Anyone want to chime in on this QOL I would have and how often I could get home realistically?

2) FlexJet. Never gave it a thought until the phone range. Heard 135 in general will work you to death if not at the right one. I see a lot of random info on them, but nothing recent about their QOL. 8/6 schedule it appears and they make it sound like they are a class act and really take care of the pilots. Anyone here tell me about the QOL at Flexjet in 2024? And what is the usual work week like? 135 regs can be brutal if they like to maximize work and minimize rest on those 8 days.

Looking for thoughts in general on the QOL in 2024 onward from what you all see/ hear on each and how it comes into play with me living in TPA.

Thanks ya'll...
Click to expand...
FlexJet is really a 91k fractional operation, but they officially operate under part 135.

That 6/8 is really 6/6. The 1st and the 8th days are dedicated, paid travel duty days. And if the travel goes SNAFU, they pay, not you.

While I do think FJ is better than most 135, my advice (based on way too much, er, experience with it) is AVOID 135 like the Plague.

If you've got a choice, raise your voice.

(Sorry, in a Juicy mood, I'm getting all Johnny Cochran-happy of late.)
 
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