What would you change about phraseology?

Rosstafari

Rosstafari

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I was playing around with a program that's meant to help student pilots out with their phraseology last night, and I got to thinking how modernizing it could go down. Personally, I didn't have a very hard time picking it up when I was going through flight school, but I'm a native English speaker, I had listened to LiveATC on and off, and I've got a knack for linguistics. I know that some people have a much harder time with it.

So, I'm posing the question to one of the two groups that use it most -- professional pilots. What, if anything, would you change about phraseology? Anything to make it more efficient? Something that may help non-native English speakers? Leave it as it is but implement mandatory training to help with standardization?

Aaaaand... discuss.
 
"Cleared direct Romeo Uniform November Tango Sierra" vs "Cleared direct runts"

Same with navaids.

"Cleared direct Sierra Bravo Juliet" vs "Cleared direct Solberg"

Give me the phonetics so I can just type it in real quick. If you give me some funky fix, I either have to already have it in the box (easy), find it on the nav log (a little more difficult) or pull out the enroute chart (ugh...seriously?:D).

That's my little peeve.

-mini
 
I would have "with you", "on board", "gott'em on the fish finder", and "any traffic please report" added into the permanent lexicon.
 
minitour said:
"Cleared direct Romeo Uniform November Tango Sierra" vs "Cleared direct runts"

Same with navaids.

"Cleared direct Sierra Bravo Juliet" vs "Cleared direct Solberg"

Give me the phonetics so I can just type it in real quick. If you give me some funky fix, I either have to already have it in the box (easy), find it on the nav log (a little more difficult) or pull out the enroute chart (ugh...seriously?:D).

That's my little peeve.

-mini
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
minitour said:
"Cleared direct Romeo Uniform November Tango Sierra" vs "Cleared direct runts"

Same with navaids.

"Cleared direct Sierra Bravo Juliet" vs "Cleared direct Solberg"

Give me the phonetics so I can just type it in real quick. If you give me some funky fix, I either have to already have it in the box (easy), find it on the nav log (a little more difficult) or pull out the enroute chart (ugh...seriously?:D).

That's my little peeve.

-mini
Click to expand...

See, I'm the exact opposite. I have to think:
"Ok
Romeo, that's R
Uniform, that's U
November, that's N
Crap, what are the last two?"

I'd much rather hear "Cleared direct RUNTS, R-U-N-T-S"
 
minitour said:
"Cleared direct Romeo Uniform November Tango Sierra" vs "Cleared direct runts"

Same with navaids.

"Cleared direct Sierra Bravo Juliet" vs "Cleared direct Solberg"

Give me the phonetics so I can just type it in real quick. If you give me some funky fix, I either have to already have it in the box (easy), find it on the nav log (a little more difficult) or pull out the enroute chart (ugh...seriously?:D).

That's my little peeve.

-mini
Click to expand...


You like it Barney style huh? Not a fan myself.


My drill instructor used to yell "What are you stupid, you want me to spell it out for you?"

Apparently some do want it spelled out.

be careful what you wish for I can spit out phonetics so fast "Runts" will be a lot easier to follow. "Romeouniformnovembatangosierra" is a lot harder to understand especially if you aren't ready for it. At least "Runts" puts a word in your head like TF said.
 
minitour said:
"Cleared direct Romeo Uniform November Tango Sierra" vs "Cleared direct runts"

Same with navaids.

"Cleared direct Sierra Bravo Juliet" vs "Cleared direct Solberg"

Give me the phonetics so I can just type it in real quick. If you give me some funky fix, I either have to already have it in the box (easy), find it on the nav log (a little more difficult) or pull out the enroute chart (ugh...seriously?:D).

That's my little peeve.

-mini
Click to expand...

boondr said:
You like it Barney style huh? Not a fan myself.


My drill instructor used to yell "What are you stupid, you want me to spell it out for you?"

Apparently some do want it spelled out.

be careful what you wish for I can spit out phonetics so fast "Runts" will be a lot easier to follow. "Romeouniformnovembatangosierra" is a lot harder to understand especially if you aren't ready for it. At least "Runts" puts a word in your head like TF said.
Click to expand...

I don't mind the fixes being said as one word. What gets me is when you don't know the VOR's identifier the controller wants you to go direct to. Some of them are pretty ridiculous.

"Cleared direct Volunteer." Would you know that's VXV?

Or how about "Choo-Choo"? That's GQO. I'd much rather they spell that out.
 
dasleben said:
I don't mind the fixes being said as one word. What gets me is when you don't know the VOR's identifier the controller wants you to go direct to. Some of them are pretty ridiculous.

"Cleared direct Volunteer." Would you know that's VXV?

Or how about "Choo-Choo"? That's GQO. I'd much rather they spell that out.
Click to expand...

I definitely don't mind somebody asking for a spelling, in which case I'll do it slowly. My problem is spelling out fixes/vor's all day to 100's of aircraft because there are 5 that need it. Seems easier to me to have those 5 ask, which is again not a problem.
 
Itchy said:
I would have "with you", "on board", "gott'em on the fish finder", and "any traffic please report" added into the permanent lexicon.
Click to expand...


I really would like "maintain TCAS separation" to be approved phraseology.
 
boondr said:
I definitely don't mind somebody asking for a spelling, in which case I'll do it slowly. My problem is spelling out fixes/vor's all day to 100's of aircraft because there are 5 that need it. Seems easier to me to have those 5 ask, which is again not a problem.
Click to expand...

From the other side of the mic, I'm on board with that idea. Most pilots are familiar with fixes that they see regularly, and even if not familiar there is a really good chance that the fix is already on the flight plan. Those minority of times when we need assistance it's easy enough to just ask.
 
boondr said:
I really would like "maintain TCAS separation" to be approved phraseology.
Click to expand...

We're lookin...got em on the fish finder!

Aaaaaah!!!! Drives me freakin crazy to hear fellow pilots say that!

On the subject of spelling out VORs; ZMA always gives the 3 letter ID, spelled phonetically, to anyone being cleared direct to anything south of their airspace. "American 123, cleared direct Uniform Charlie Alpha". I guess they figure half the crews won't have a clue what "Ciego de Avila" is.
 
Get people to stop saying 'one thousand for four thousand' or 'one thousand to two thousand'. Eliminate 'to' and 'for'. Climbing, descending, level.

Stop reading back "Roger, turn left heading 270" - Don't roger, and then read it back anyways.

Stop reading back approach clearances as "Roger, turn left heading 270, maintain 2000 until established, cleared VOR runway 17 approach, cessna XXX"

4 things. Heading. Altitude. Approach. Tail.

"270, 2000, Cleared VOR 17, Cessna XXX"

When you abbreviate your tail number, use the appropriate method. Last 3 alphanumerics. Not 2, not 4. 3.

Don't say "Cherokee November two two six five kilo"

You can say "November 2265K" you can say "Cherokee 2265K" but you shouldn't say "Cherokee November 2265k"

Stop saying "with you"

When you have parallels don't refer to them as the 'left side' and the 'right side'.

Runway three six is not runway thirty-six.

Don't say please and thank you on EVERY RADIO CALL.

Instructors: for the love of god, let your student talk on the radio. Yes, you sound pretty snazzy talking on the radio, however; learning is an active process. The student will not learn how to use ATC better by listening to you.
 
bLizZuE said:
Get people to stop saying 'one thousand for four thousand' or 'one thousand to two thousand'. Eliminate 'to' and 'for'. Climbing, descending, level.
Click to expand...
I think that's the way it's supposed to be anyway, isn't it?

"N12345 one six thousand fower hundred climbing flight level two tree zero."

-mini
 
"XXXX checkin' in with ya six point five for 4 point oh, looks like we've got information Noveeeembaaaah. How's it goin' today?"

:D
 
minitour said:
That was you!?!?!?!?!?!!??

-mini
Click to expand...

Probably!

I'm actually not a stickler for phraseology. Hell, I say "good morning" before everything and don't say the facility name (I just say "approach" or "tower"). Eh, I get by fine.

What I do hate is when I have an errant FO who tries to sound like a jet jock on the radio, but fails miserably. Please, stop soiling my good Cair number with your too-cool sound. :rotfl:
 
minitour said:
I think that's the way it's supposed to be anyway, isn't it?

"N12345 Leaving one six thousand fower hundred climbing to flight level two tree zero."

-mini
Click to expand...
There, now it's how the AIM recommends.


aim 5-3-2
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL
(altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING
(exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR
DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).
Click to expand...
 
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