What kinda airplane would you buy?

stuckingfk said:
If you're doing IFR at night in mountainous terrain, you need a twin or SE turbine.

Consider getting a Bonanza and upgrading it. I really like the the 210 Silver Eagle. Costs under a million and has a nice purring Allison leading the way.
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The whole IFR/mountain issue is more complicated than a straight, "definitely need a twin or turbine single" answer.

The two big issues I see are pilot proficiency and personal comfort level with the type of operation that is being performed. A secondary factor is how often he will be flying IFR and/or over mountains.

Pilot proficiency -- If you're going to fly a twin, you need to stay proficient with engine out ops. Doing a couple engine cuts every two years during a BFR is not enough to stay sharp. The added safety of two engines in the clouds can quickly be neutralized if the pilot isn't proficient enough to handle an engine failure at rotation. If the pilot isn't going to fly this plane a lot, I'd say a TC single is the safer option.

Personal comfort level -- Just because Stuckingfk isn't comfortable flying a single over the mountains in IFR doesn't mean it isn't safe. Everything in flying is a balance of risks. We can never eliminate risks completely. We can only decide what we consider to be an acceptable level of risk. Personally, I'd have no problem taking a Bonanza or other high performance single over the mountains while IFR. I don't consider it to be a "high risk" operation if done with good judgement--that includes never cutting corners on maintenance, analyzing the weather, knowing the limitations of the aircraft, etc.--but all of that applies regardless of if you're flying a single or a twin.

I think a lot of times we get too caught up in the reliability/redundancy part of the safety equation and we forget about pilot proficiency and judgement. Very few accidents occur because of a straight engine failure. Huge numbers of accidents occur every year because the pilot uses poor judgement. They try to do things that exceed the limits of their piloting abilities and/or the limits of the aircraft. If I seriously were afraid of an engine failure, I wouldn't fly any aircraft, even on a sunny VFR day.

Finally, the last point I wanted to mention is the total exposure to a certain risk. If 90% of your flying is night/IFR/mountains, I'd encourage you to get a twin much more than if 10% of your flying fits this criteria. Really seriously stop and think about where you want to go with this plane. Try to get a plane that will fit your intended mission the majority of the time but will still be *acceptable* for the other occasions, even if it's not a perfect fit.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I dont' want all that glass in a plane that I own.
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It's nice to have glass, but then again I didn't get to it until after I had my IFR.

Doug Taylor] Maybe I'm weird but non-commercial single-pilot IFR is nuts said:
remember, I said "non-commercial". Private pilots generally don't have a MX department, dispatchers or a real reason to be out the WX shiznit flying around beyond pleasure flying.
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I have a MX department (ME), Dispatcher (ME), Real Reason (WORK!). Remember some of us use aircraft in Part91 for business trips as we are legal to do so! Got to get those hours somehow!
 
desertdog71 said:
Where the hell are you getting your work done? Those prices are about double the actual cost. Sounds like you are going to those places that you take your Cherokee 180 to get an annual and $30,000 later you get to fly it again. :rolleyes:
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Dude, for a TIO 540 factory reman its $29,000. A 0 360 is $23,000. My PA28-201T engine was $24,000 for a reman with zero time.

How much does an engine cost?
The prices may vary greatly depending on what type of engine you decide to buy. At the low end is a used engine with time remaining, which you might pick up for $15,000. An overhauled engine runs between $18,500 and $40,000 depending on the shop and what options you choose (Lycoming is $33,700). A factory remanufactured (rebuilt) engine is $42,900. These prices do not include the core charge of $14,700. Some engine shops may take your IO-520 core on trade.
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I never went to a "mom and pop" shop for my engine work. Not gonna pay some homer to work on the engine carrying my family around. My 3 blade conversion was around $8,000 if memory serves me correctly.

Not cheap stuff..
 
stuckingfk said:
If you're doing IFR at night in mountainous terrain, you need a twin or SE turbine.
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Remember that even a twin which encounters an engine failure at altitude, flying at blue line, will drift down to its absolute ceiling. In mountainous terrain, I doubt that will be enough to save you.
 
meritflyer said:
Remember that even a twin which encounters an engine failure at altitude, flying at blue line, will drift down to its absolute ceiling. In mountainous terrain, I doubt that will be enough to save you.
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A seminole shouldn't even be referenced.

As for this quote...a 10k or 12k foot SESC is allot nicer than a 0SESC wherever you are.

What you need is a T-310R. Plenty of load, lots of room, good speed, and they do well on a single engine, good service cieling. Even lots of baggage space. I can't rememeber what the service cieling was on it but I believe its about the same as the 402 which was 30K or 31K. So your drift down time from the mid 20's to your SESC would be probably 30 minutes or so 160 or 170KTS across the ground....lots of options.

Depending on where you operate a single will limit you in the mt's. theres only a few routes that you can make in a single crossing the rockys and if you take a single plan on spending many nights on the ground waiting for winds and weather.

That being said...why don't you give a better idea of your trips/length, normal destinations, etc...

A motorcycle ridin buddy of mine once said. Good gear is always gonna be cheaper than any hospital bill.
 
Agreed. But you're talking serious amounts of cash to own, operate, and mx a pressurized twin. One of the doctors I work with in my job just had his pressurized 402 through an annual. Cost? Around $40,000. All sorts of BS with the pressurization system, props, and gear.

Cant afford it.

Leaning towards the C182T.
 
Texasspilot said:
As for this quote...a 10k or 12k foot SESC is allot nicer than a 0SESC wherever you are.
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A 2007 Barron G58 has the following performance SESC.

Ceilings
All-Engine Service 20,688 ft (6,306 m) Engine-out Service 7,284 ft (2,220 m)
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Over the Mountains in Utah at night, I doubt it'll save you. It may buy you minutes at best.

Just a thought..
 
meritflyer said:
Ceilings
All-Engine Service 20,688 ft (6,306 m) Engine-out Service 7,284 ft (2,220 m)

Over the Mountains in Utah at night, I doubt it'll save you. It may buy you minutes at best.
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And that few minutes would only be on a cold/medium temperature day. Summertime, peace out.
 
meritflyer said:
Dude, for a TIO 540 factory reman its $29,000. A 0 360 is $23,000. My PA28-201T engine was $24,000 for a reman with zero time.
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Sorry, I didn't know a simple rebuild was unacceptable. O-360 will run you about $8000-$12,000. Besides how many hours do you figure to rack up on this beast? If you fly 200 hours a year that is a lot. That is a good 8-10 years of engine use.
 
I want to build an RV-9. 150kt cruise on 118 hp (a c-152 engine) I think I'd like something like that a lot. Toss in a basic /A IFR package and I would be as happy as a pig in crap.
 
meritflyer said:
A 2007 Barron G58 has the following performance SESC.



Over the Mountains in Utah at night, I doubt it'll save you. It may buy you minutes at best.

Just a thought..
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I'd suggest you do some research before you spout off such claims.

I'll leave it up to Barry Shiff in this article to help get the point across. Reference this quote, "Still-air range during descent was 104 nautical miles, and average sink rate during the 5,000-�oot loss was less than 100 fpm. No matter where in the 48 states such an engine failure might occur, the Seminole would almost always be within driftdown range of an airport, indicating that once any light twin has climbed to minimum safe altitude, an engine failure above the service ceiling rarely dictates the need to land off-airport."

This guy was using a seminole. Maybe I should have pointed out in my previous post to disregard twin trainers. I didn't think I had to do that since seminoles aren't meant for business travel.

There is a reason twins are made and used by millions everyday. When flown correctly by a proficient pilot, they are safer. If a pilot crashes after losing an engine, it's almost always their fault. The pilot was not proficient in engine out flying, or they were trying to make their plane do something it wasn't intended for.

Flying into Aspen on a hot summer day while heavy would be an example. Can it do it both engines? Of course, but when the poo hits the fan, I wouldn't want to be there, even while VFR. Throw in some weather and you're asking for trouble.

Oh yeah, listen to Texaspilot. I think he knows what he's talking about.
 
I still have *no* idea why anyone would spend 2+ million on a Baron. You could get a decent Citation, King Air, TBM/Meridian in great shape, or a brand new VLJ and gas for a year for that price. I like the way Beech light twins fly, but not for 2 million.
 
zmiller4 said:
I still have *no* idea why anyone would spend 2+ million on a Baron. You could get a decent Citation, King Air, TBM/Meridian in great shape, or a brand new VLJ and gas for a year for that price. I like the way Beech light twins fly, but not for 2 million.
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I knew I should have corrected Smitty for that absurd post.

They are not 2.3 million. I can't believe ya'll believvve that.

A quick look at controller.com has a 2006 Baron with the G1000 and only 235 hours going for $950,000.

A completely decked out brand new Baron would be just a shade over a million. Do I think this is a rip off? Of course, but it isn't even close to 2.3 million.
 
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