What Keeps you at a 135?

hook_dupin

hook_dupin

Well-Known Member
What are the cultural factors that keep you working at a 135?

IFR 135 PIC mins are 1200 hours plus some miscellaneous stuff, where as R-ATP mins range from 750 to 1500 depending on your life background. What keeps folks at a 135 operator?

Is it flexibility? Ability to stay close to where ever home is for you? Just love of the work?

A team I'm working with is genuinely interested to know....
 
Ability to live far away from a central hub.

No commute or just a drive.

At the time in 2004-20013 when I flew 135 the pay, schedule and QOL was much better than the regional airlines.

That was the only reason that kept me there. Sure I was on call but I was riding my mountain bike with my phone on call.

I was also single with no kids so I could afford to live on the low (but slightly better than starting 121) pay.

Now not so much
 
Money, I am having to save money for the paycut I will be taking to fly 61 more passengers a leg.... Had a start date in August, had to push it back to build a financial cushion. Plus, flying through the gorge at 2000 ft in the summer never gets old! :)
 
135 to regional is one scenario that is often dictated by funds.

However I know and have met many people that have gone from flying Hawkers/ Citations/ Lears to non-regional 121s and skipped the low income work of 50-75 regionals. Blue, SWA, Spirit, even Delta & United.




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If a pilot doesn't have the desire to step through and go to the airlines, I'm going to say that it would be security, stability and predictability - in that order.

Depending on the rest of the operation, I think that's what would keep me at a 135. What a lot of people chase at an airline is the lifestyle, right?
 
A good friend of mine makes about $80K flying 135 while I'll maybe knock down about $45K-50K this year as a regional FO.

He flies about 30 hours /month, I fly anywhere from 65-100. He doesn't have paid vacation, accruing sick time, 401K, travel benefits, and I do. His health and dental insurance is okay, mine is pretty good. He is on call much of the month with a 2 hour callout, I know my schedule about 2 weeks in advance for the next month and I have a lot more flexibility. He has 4 hard days off /month, I typically have anywhere from 11 - 18 depending on how much I want to work.

He has been trying to get to a major or legacy for a few years now. He has family at a legacy and still can't even get an interview even with gobs of TPIC. All that being said, he is relatively happy where he is. Not a career company, but he is happy. And that is what is important. 135 and 121 are two completely different animals. Having exposure to both, I can say I like 121 better because of the time off and benefits. Although I think the flying that many 135 pilots do is more varied and fun and being based at home is really nice.
 
chrisreedrules said:
A good friend of mine makes about $80K flying 135 while I'll maybe knock down about $45K-50K this year as a regional FO.

He flies about 30 hours /month, I fly anywhere from 65-100. He doesn't have paid vacation, accruing sick time, 401K, travel benefits, and I do. His health and dental insurance is okay, mine is pretty good. He is on call much of the month with a 2 hour callout, I know my schedule about 2 weeks in advance for the next month and I have a lot more flexibility. He has 4 hard days off /month, I typically have anywhere from 11 - 18 depending on how much I want to work.

He has been trying to get to a major or legacy for a few years now. He has family at a legacy and still can't even get an interview even with gobs of TPIC. All that being said, he is relatively happy where he is. Not a career company, but he is happy. And that is what is important. 135 and 121 are two completely different animals. Having exposure to both, I can say I like 121 better because of the time off and benefits. Although I think the flying that many 135 pilots do is more varied and fun and being based at home is really nice.
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This.

QOL>$

135's short game looks pretty good compared to 121's short game. 121's long game looks pretty good compared to 135's. But.....it's all a big gamble no matter how you slice it.
 
One thing new guys just graduating from flight school don't understand, and guys less recent seem to have forgotten, is how bad things were on the job front 6-7-8 years ago and how quickly it went from 190 hour FITS commercial wonders being hired at regionals to jet captains with 10000 hours spamming resumes to every skeezy operator who'd hire you to do office work or what have you and fly once in a while. Here's a (hypothetical) example of why some folks might still be at a 135. 135 operation is only place hiring during economic downturn, get hired. Find that you enjoy the flying, stay even though hiring picks up a little outside. Because it's a small organization with high turnover, find that by staying around a year or two you have seniority, and are deluded into thinking you can work to make things better. People notice you put in the effort, it's rewarded with promotions into bigger planes, raises, check airman, management duties, more raises. Get comfortable being a big fish in a small pond. Buy a house etc. don't want to move and take the paycut to go to a regional, but majors/LCCs won't call without 121 time. Don't want to take the risk of going to another 135 with a whole new set of unknowns (the devil you know vs the one you don't) Keep working way into better pay, more time off, higher up the ladder. Etc.
 
I'd say once you bite the apple of schedule flexibility and being just a number, it's hard to think of a good 135 outfit. Maybe a 91 outfit where you're essentially paid to man a desk, write flight manuals, and occasionally fly for $200,000 a year (ie Time Warner Cable corporate), but, being just a number is awesome, @ppragman .

When I ask for time off, I don't have to speak with anyone for their permission. I just look at the minimum reserve coverage and decide whether I want to get paid time off or unpaid time off.

In August, at 25 months of service at my shop, I have 22 days off with 80 hours of pay credit. One of my 3-day trips is a two-day layover at my house.
 
Based at home. Drive right up to the hangar. No security. The only time I airline is twice a year to training.

Money is good enough. Chief pilot and DO are a pleasure to work for. Owners of the aircraft treat me very well. Destinations are like a vacation plus all my expenses are paid whilst at those destinations. Can bring family with on flights if we want to.

Plus, I'm not cool enough to be a tier one applicant, so there's that.


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Dugie8 said:
Based at home. Drive right up to the hangar. No security. The only time I airline is twice a year to training.

Money is good enough. Chief pilot and DO are a pleasure to work for. Owners of the aircraft treat me very well. Destinations are like a vacation plus all my expenses are paid whilst at those destinations. Can bring family with on flights if we want to.

Plus, I'm not cool enough to be a tier one applicant, so there's that.


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The 10 minute bicycle commute is one of the best things about my current jorb.
 
Dugie8 said:
Based at home. Drive right up to the hangar. No security. The only time I airline is twice a year to training.

Money is good enough. Chief pilot and DO are a pleasure to work for. Owners of the aircraft treat me very well. Destinations are like a vacation plus all my expenses are paid whilst at those destinations. Can bring family with on flights if we want to.

Plus, I'm not cool enough to be a tier one applicant, so there's that.


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You are the 1%. I'd consider giving up a lot to be in that 1%.
 
killbilly said:
If a pilot doesn't have the desire to step through and go to the airlines, I'm going to say that it would be security, stability and predictability - in that order.

Depending on the rest of the operation, I think that's what would keep me at a 135. What a lot of people chase at an airline is the lifestyle, right?
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If you think that the majority of part 135 jobs have security, stability or predictability, then you must not know much about part 135 operations. And I don't mean this to say, "YOU IDIOT," more like, "Oh no, you bought into the internet hype."

Charter companies put you on call 24 hours a day (illegally, I might add), and go under at a rate that's hard to comprehend. I don't know many folks who have been working at the same charter company for more than few years at a time, for various reasons.

Airlines, even regional airlines, provide a level of stability and predictability in schedule that is unimaginable at most charter departments.
 
hook_dupin said:
What are the cultural factors that keep you working at a 135?

IFR 135 PIC mins are 1200 hours plus some miscellaneous stuff, where as R-ATP mins range from 750 to 1500 depending on your life background. What keeps folks at a 135 operator?

Is it flexibility? Ability to stay close to where ever home is for you? Just love of the work?

A team I'm working with is genuinely interested to know....
Click to expand...

I'm not a pilot - but I flight followed, fueled, de-iced, CSR'd, you name it'd, all for the same company.
I drove 9 minutes to work every day when I worked 135. 13 if the lights were red. We all knew each other, we all knew each other's families, we all knew the planes, and every plane had a name.

It's a family feel. It just wasn't 121, and I'm still young and stupid. Shrug
:)
 
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