What is the gouge on the ART program for USAFR after UFT?

[MikeD]

Thanks.

The servant shall not question the master

I'm just saying that because I remember guys trying to get hours on XCs to make that pay jump, and it was either 500 or 1000 hours.

 

[n57flyguy]

I'm just saying that because I remember guys trying to get hours on XCs to make that pay jump, and it was either 500 or 1000 hours.

That makes sense. This whole thing just adds some more questions and I wonder if it will be more 'flexible' with what they are wanting, as in certain new benchmarks created to make it worthwhile. Of course - probably squadron dependent, 200 hours might take a year at one, and two years at another.

 

[Hacker15e]

Alright I gotta ask... Where is this UFT coming from?? UPT?

Yes, Undergraduate Flying Training is a generic term that is interchangeable with the actual program name of "SUPT."

 

[Soku39]

That makes sense. This whole thing just adds some more questions and I wonder if it will be more 'flexible' with what they are wanting, as in certain new benchmarks created to make it worthwhile. Of course - probably squadron dependent, 200 hours might take a year at one, and two years at another.

This is my biggest issue with tying promos to hours... it is largely a variable that a new copilot will not be able to control. The first 4 years of your career are shut up and color, not fly me so I can get hours to promote on the civilian scale.

 

[n57flyguy]

This is my biggest issue with tying promos to hours... it is largely a variable that a new copilot will not be able to control. The first 4 years of your career are shut up and color, not fly me so I can get hours to promote on the civilian scale.

I had not really considered that. I would probably be faster on the AMC side anyhow for the simple reason that they fly more. I mean they have you there full time at that point, what is the incentive to have them fly you more? Then consider appropriations as well as budget cuts, but we need you, but budget cuts, etc. etc.?

I think I'd talk my way out of a Reserve UPT board - "Any questions for us?"

Edit: I am not saying it is the most horrible thing in the world, but personally I would need more information if a slot was offered to make the choice.

 

[Soku39]

I had not really considered that. I would probably be faster on the AMC side anyhow for the simple reason that they fly more. I mean they have you there full time at that point, what is the incentive to have them fly you more? Then consider appropriations as well as budget cuts, but we need you, but budget cuts, etc. etc.?

I think I'd talk my way out of a Reserve UPT board - "Any questions for us?"

Edit: I am not saying it is the most horrible thing in the world, but personally I would need more information if a slot was offered to make the choice.

I would hope that different airframes would be treated differently hours wise, but even in the same airframe some units are way busier than others due to mandated mission, big AF requirements etc. For ex a C-130 MAFFS copilot on orders during fire season is probably flying a lot
more than any other non deployed copilot.

 

[SimpleJack]

My unit is putting out feelers to see how many of us pipeline dudes are interested in this baby ART program. The intel I have received thus far is that it is a full time flying position where gaining hours is your primary job. The purpose is to essentially accelerate new copilots to AC as quickly as possible/able, after seasoning orders. GS-9 until reaching 750 hours (in aircraft) then bump to GS-11. Termination of the program would be at 900 hours OR achieving AC upgrade. Supposedly we could quit the civilian job at any time. The biggest concern, as Soku has pointed out, is how fast will you be able to accumulate the hours (squadron dependent). Could be a year, could be 4 years…

On a side note, this could be a good deal for the baby Reserve types that are looking to get to a regional ASAP (750 total hours for R-ATP requirement). However, from what I understand, you can't take mil leave from a regional to go back to the ART position once initial training at regional is done.

 

[MikeD]

My unit is putting out feelers to see how many of us pipeline dudes are interested in this baby ART program. The intel I have received thus far is that it is a full time flying position where gaining hours is your primary job. The purpose is to essentially accelerate new copilots to AC as quickly as possible/able, after seasoning orders. GS-9 until reaching 750 hours (in aircraft) then bump to GS-11. Termination of the program would be at 900 hours OR achieving AC upgrade. Supposedly we could quit the civilian job at any time. The biggest concern, as Soku has pointed out, is how fast will you be able to accumulate the hours (squadron dependent). Could be a year, could be 4 years…

On a side note, this could be a good deal for the baby Reserve types that are looking to get to a regional ASAP (750 total hours for R-ATP requirement). However, from what I understand, you can't take mil leave from a regional to go back to the ART position once initial training at regional is done.

ART, being full time GS....ie-another civilian job, isn't something you can take mil leave to go do. AGR would be a different story, if I'm not mistaken, as its actual full time military.

 

[Aw Bucket]

This policy will not stay in place as it is. It will be an opportunity, not a requirement. For those that are interested in the ART program, it's a good deal because it now has pay raises tied to flying time instead of other factors. It also is a full-time job after you come off of seasoning.

We had a hiring board this week and our WG/CC spoke with us and the applicants and said don't worry about this. If verbiage doesn't change, we'll just write you a waiver for the policy.

It's good to hear that their is a waiver available. I don't know if I would go for one, but it is nice that there is the option.