I'm currently getting a packet together to go after a pilot slot in the AF Reserves. Apparently at all units now you must serve as a full time Air Reserve Technician for a minimum of 4 years after finishing UFT, according to my officer recruiter. This seems a little off to me because it means to go Reserve you have to do, at a minimum, almost six years of essentially full time duty first (although it is in a civilian status, GS-9 I think). So is the expectation now that you'll put your 'real' career on hold for six years just to get in the door? That seems to take away most of the appeal of the Reserves vs. just going Active Duty. Am I missing something? Or is that bum gouge? I am concerned because I could step away from my civilian career for probably up to three years and then return but getting rehired after being out of the industry for six years would be much more difficult.
What is the gouge on the ART program for USAFR after UFT?
- Thread starter Aw Bucket
- Start date
I know some units are having a hard time holding on to people, especially ARTs. Time was, it was tough to get an ART slot, but some units have them available wholesale. Granted, I'm just a dirty TR part timer, but I've only heard rumor of a requirement to be an ART first, as a retention measure, but I haven't seen it in actual practice. Aside from seasoning time post-training when you return to your unit, that's the only full-time there usually is.
Thanks, that is good to know. The thing is, I don't even know how it would help with retention since people could quit being an ART whenever they want, since it is a regular GS type job. Maybe there is an implicit understanding that after you finish your seasoning time as an ART you're allowed to dip out and go back to part time bumming. But I don't know how you would broach that topic at an interview without sounding like a skater.
Dan208B
Well-Known Member
Hey there is some sort of new memo that just came out that discusses this. It sounds like it's under debate how it applies. I've heard lots of rumors flying around. Some units are fighting it, some are saying it's not enforceable, others are saying it is being misread and doesn't apply to them. I would say you're safe to be getting a packet together and such, and by the time you'd ever actually sign your name anywhere this will be all sorted out and you'll have an answer.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
I just saw a forwarded email about it. And GS-11 once a TBD hourly requirement is met.
Soku39
Well-Known Member
Can't believe AFRC is scared enough that they want to shackle brand new copilots and wingmen. Wonder if guard bureau will down with the same "guidance".
Going through the process for both Guard and Reserves, it seems to be a reserve only thing at present. As you said, the GS-9 thing really sucks, especially if you're looking to be a true TR bummer with a more lucrative main career. It seems counter-intuitive, in that waivers are apparently quite easy to get right now, but then they discourage people from applying with this full time, GS-9 business. Ironically, my impression (from initial interviews and stuff) is that AFRC wants to tamp down on the number of new ascensions with airline aspirations, then they put out new regs that make the Reserves basically unviable for anyone with a career outside the airlines.
Soku39
Well-Known Member
On the flip side I would say that there IS an element of sacrifice involved with this. You will deploy for months on end and that will interrupt your other career and life in general, and spending 2+ years in AETC training isn't exactly fun. Also not everyone is as educated in the system as you are. When I applied I was a 21 year old college senior that just really really wanted to fly, I had no idea what an ART or GS-9 was. Would that have been such a bad deal for someone in that situation, well considering how many 22 year olds at the time had zero meaningful employment for a number of years, probably not, even though I have never, and still never desire to be full time military. That said even now I'm low on hours because of the guard and am behind my peers on my airline career now that hiring at the majors has picked up. This commitment will to some extent change up your civilian career because you can only physically be in one place at a time, and there is only so much time you can spend working. All this to say I have immensely enjoyed flying in the guard to the point where the tangibles of career can't really match up, it has been a privilege but I am starting to get annoyed at how bad it is becoming. If they take away full BAH I won't even know what to do. You seem very bright and apparently have a good guide or gouge on the whole process and will probably get a slot, but remember when you are interviewing that you are trying to enter an elite and small fraternity of military aviators. Try not be cocky or overly confident, not everyone can do this, or gets a chance to. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Thanks for the kind words and good advice. You're spot on about the idea that you can't really 'have it all' in this (or probably any other) business. I'm a former O with 3 long-ass deployments under my belt already, and it's just hard for me to pull the trigger on something that is going to want this big of a chunk of my life, again. I'm rushing these units because I want to keep contributing in a tactical way that has a quantifiable effect, something kinetic and decisive and unmistakable to myself, but I can't pretend that at this point, when I have things I didn't have in the first go-around (like my own business and a family) that I can drop everything for 6 years to join the brotherhood. So while all the decisions that put me in that spot were entirely my own, I feel a bit salty that AFRC is making this big ask that doesn't seem totally reasonable, or even really in keeping with the concept of a reserve force. I'm happy as hell to help out around the squadron and take on whatever collaterals or whatever needs doing, but just windmilling for 4 extra years instead of getting after my other, non-military obligations is a non-starter and I'm going to try to be humble but upfront with the board at my interviews about that. Famous last words, probably! My general belief is that this whole ART thing will probably crash and burn as an enforced program before I would even finish UFT, but that's a gamble, and I don't want to give the guys hiring me the wrong impression. Thanks again for the advice-- great gouge.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
Yeah - usually I am more eloquent but IDK suffices this news, both pro and con. Might as well go AD at that point, unless you are dead set on a specific location, as in a unit the individual is working with. But again, the applicants desires overall.
As far as I know, this has not trickled to the Guard. You speak of waivers being more flexible - do you know for what?
frog_flyer
FredFlyer
This policy will not stay in place as it is. It will be an opportunity, not a requirement. For those that are interested in the ART program, it's a good deal because it now has pay raises tied to flying time instead of other factors. It also is a full-time job after you come off of seasoning.
We had a hiring board this week and our WG/CC spoke with us and the applicants and said don't worry about this. If verbiage doesn't change, we'll just write you a waiver for the policy.
We had a hiring board this week and our WG/CC spoke with us and the applicants and said don't worry about this. If verbiage doesn't change, we'll just write you a waiver for the policy.
ART is a way for the AF to work you to death and hope you die off before they have to pay out your retirement after 60. If it was AGR, then it'd be a far better deal
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
Is there any information on the hours correlating with pay yet?
They already do. New guys in my unit are, I believe GS-9s. They need X number of hours to move to, I believe, GS-11.
That's the basic gist of it. But being that I'm a part timer, I don't spend much time paying attention to the full-timer's life of indentured servitude..
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
They already do. New guys in my unit are, I believe GS-9s. They need X number of hours to move to, I believe, GS-11.
That's the basic gist of it. But being that I'm a part timer, I don't spend much time paying attention to the full-timer's life of indentured servitude..
Understood - I was tracking for specifics in relation to how many hours raise the rate and/or stage.
I wanting to say 500 hours starts the first promo?