What is it really like to Train/Teach at DCA

[DE727UPS]

1. 15-year track record of sending 98% of our Flight Instructors to 26 Airlines.

The part they don't mention....
Pay is $10 an hour for CFI's.
You have to put in 800 hours as a CFI to get the airline interview.
You only get an "interview", no promise of a job. (thank goodness). But the above statement implies a job.

If someone leaves before the 800 hours dual given, and gets hired at a regional, do you still consider you "sent" them to said regional?

If someone doesn't get hired at DCA, but ten years later still gets hired at a regional, are they part of the 98% figure?

 

[DE727UPS]

"2. We get you hired at the best quality airlines in the industry which fly jets."

Comair, ACA, ASA, Chautauqua.

As per the DCA website, the above are the airlines with the interview guarantee.

What airlines are quality and what aren't is subjective. You can look at hiring standards, the contract, balance sheet, recent growth, whatever....

In my book, Horizon and Skywest, (Skywest even does Delta flying) are the "best" quality. Why aren't those airlines mentioned as part of the guaranteed interview? Does DCA not consider Horizon or Skywest in the "best quality airline" group?

I'm sure Yankee One will say DCA grads have gone to both Horizon and Skywest but without them being part of the "guarantee" program, is it right to say DCA "got you hired"?

 

[DE727UPS]

"4. Our graduates that are airline pilots will train you to fly RJ’s for our Delta Connection Carriers while you attend our Jet Bridge Program, which is a free course (value up to $6,208.00) for our Instructors."

A similar course, which you are traditionally paid to attend, is called "new hire initial training at the airline you got hired at"....

The vast majority of folks that get hired at the regionals don't attend a "jet bridge program", and yet seem to get hired and get through training all the time.

 

[DE727UPS]

"5. We have the best maintenance facility anywhere."

Really? The best? Again...highly subjective marketing hype.

What do you pay your A and P mechanics? What kind of hiring standards do you have? Do non-A and P's ever touch an airplane (like students being call interns and helping with light maintenance)? Do you overhaul your engines or put factory new on at TBO? Do you run your engines over TBO?

If I were to claim the "best" maintenance for my 152 (which I'm not....just FAA legal and my own personal standards). I'd never run an engine over TBO and I'd always put on factory new engines. I'd have "the best" mechanic pay to attract "the best" mechanics and I wouldn't try to save on costs by using students to do light maintenance.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
Lloyd,

You seem like a real nice guy and a good, honest Marine. I hope I can add open-minded too. However, comments like these (accusing somebody of a 'blatant lie'), without having the facts, at least make you appear close-minded and openly hostile. I'll choose to assume that is not really the case.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think I'm a fairly nice guy, and I think I'm pretty open minded...

[ QUOTE ]

I have personally seen data that backs up the claim of 97% placement rate (no, Frank was not the one who showed it to me). When the claim of 98% is made, I am not that skeptical. Keep in mind these are CFI's who complete the program, to include instructing at the school. If you do not complete that 'phase', it stands to reason you would not be guaranteed an interview, and therefore not included in these results. If you would like to see numbers of enrollments to airline hires, join the club. I can guarantee they will not be published.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there's the problem. If you don't know anything about the industry and you want to become an airline pilot, the 98% thing is misleading. I'll admit, maybe it isn't a blatant lie. However, it would lead one to believe that if you go there, get your training and (of course) pay them the money, you'll be an airline pilot!

Now, you and I can look and say "Well, everybody knows that you have to build the time...", or something to that effect. However, when you're 20 and graduating college, or 39 and retiring from the military - with no concept of the way this industry operates - it's misleading!

According to the dictionary, one of the definitions of lie[/] is : Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

I assure you that DCA doesn't publish the ratio of enrollees to airline pilots (whatever they call them) because they don't want you to know! If it was really 1/3, that would look pretty bad for the company. In fact, it would make DCA look just like every other school out there.

Wait, I think we're on to something....

When I said it was a blatent lie, I wasn't making a personal attack. I was, however, attacking the statement. If it's misleading, it's a lie. If it's meant from the beginning - by the person that made the utterance - to be misleading, it's a blatent lie. Advertisements are often, unfortunately, blatent lies. It's a fact of life.

Even in my old Marine Corps, 85% of the people were lied to during their enlistment. I'm not bitter about it - in fact, I understood that going in.

[ QUOTE ]

I knew the 97% couldn't be a placement/enrollment, and was never told so.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why weren't you ever told so? Have you ever questioned that?

[ QUOTE ]

That said, I don't know the first thing about professional marketing. Marketing the product in a positive light, while it may upset some, makes sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I make a pain relif drug, and 7 out of 10 users have internal bleeding, should I ignore that and talk about how good 3 out of 10 users feel?

 

[yankee_one]

Jam,
it seems to flucuate between the 97% and 98%. I'm not sure when exactly it was offically changed, but thats the percentage given out to us. Thanks for the congrats. September was a great month!

The house faired okay.. gotta tree that put some holes in the roof during charlie, then Jeanne put the only other tree I was worried about on the roof too doing some more damage. State Farm and FEMA have already payed me.. just waiting on a roofer now.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lloyd,

You seem like a real nice guy and a good, honest Marine. I hope I can add open-minded too. However, comments like these (accusing somebody of a 'blatant lie'), without having the facts, at least make you appear close-minded and openly hostile. I'll choose to assume that is not really the case.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think I'm a fairly nice guy, and I think I'm pretty open minded...

[ QUOTE ]

I have personally seen data that backs up the claim of 97% placement rate (no, Frank was not the one who showed it to me). When the claim of 98% is made, I am not that skeptical. Keep in mind these are CFI's who complete the program, to include instructing at the school. If you do not complete that 'phase', it stands to reason you would not be guaranteed an interview, and therefore not included in these results. If you would like to see numbers of enrollments to airline hires, join the club. I can guarantee they will not be published.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there's the problem. If you don't know anything about the industry and you want to become an airline pilot, the 98% thing is misleading. I'll admit, maybe it isn't a blatant lie. However, it would lead one to believe that if you go there, get your training and (of course) pay them the money, you'll be an airline pilot!

Now, you and I can look and say "Well, everybody knows that you have to build the time...", or something to that effect. However, when you're 20 and graduating college, or 39 and retiring from the military - with no concept of the way this industry operates - it's misleading!

According to the dictionary, one of the definitions of lie is : Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

I assure you that DCA doesn't publish the ratio of enrollees to airline pilots (whatever they call them) because they don't want you to know! If it was really 1/3, that would look pretty bad for the company. In fact, it would make DCA look just like every other school out there.

Wait, I think we're on to something....

When I said it was a blatent lie, I wasn't making a personal attack. I was, however, attacking the statement. If it's misleading, it's a lie. If it's meant from the beginning - by the person that made the utterance - to be misleading, it's a blatent lie. Advertisements are often, unfortunately, blatent lies. It's a fact of life.

Even in my old Marine Corps, 85% of the people were lied to during their enlistment. I'm not bitter about it - in fact, I understood that going in.

[ QUOTE ]

I knew the 97% couldn't be a placement/enrollment, and was never told so.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why weren't you ever told so? Have you ever questioned that?

[ QUOTE ]

That said, I don't know the first thing about professional marketing. Marketing the product in a positive light, while it may upset some, makes sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I make a pain relif drug, and 7 out of 10 users have internal bleeding, should I ignore that and talk about how good 3 out of 10 users feel?

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[yankee_one]

DE727UPS,
The Track records from what I see is on a yearly basis so someome 10 years down the road wouldn't be included. I could be wrong, but thats how I see it. While we may not have guaranteed someone an interview with a particular airline, the student may have come to us and ask for help in lining up an interview. If thats the case, of course that would be counted towards our placements.

Engines are not run past TBO. There are either new or rebuilds from lycoming, and no students or interns do any work on any aircraft. As to their pay, I don't know, maybe H46bubba has some insight on that.
As for the CFI pay and the 800 hour commitments, none of that is hidden from people. When people come to tour, I go over that as well as any other admissions officer. Many people ask that over the phone long before touring and we gladly explain it to anyone. I haven't seen many schools that put there Instructor pay or requirments on there ad's.. if you've seen one doing that on a regular basis, please enlighten me. Does UPS show what they pay the guy dropping the box off at my door in their ad's?

 

[H46Bubba]

I guess I'm the maintenance guru here. Our maintenace department is definitely top notch. Like yankee_one said, DCA won the FAA's Diamond Award for 2003. The aircraft are well used, but are really well taken care of. The school puts a lot of flight hours on the aircraft and 100 Hrs inspections come very frequently. We do not go over TBO on props or engines. We install new or rebuilt engines straight from Lycoming. No person other than maintenamce personnel perform any maintenace on our aircraft. We have wide range or maintenance experience, ranging from the new A&P to those with extensive military maintenace training and years of experience. We even have reps from aerospace parts companies come to provide training on components and products.
Also on another note, several instructors have gone to SkyWest.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
Does UPS show what they pay the guy dropping the box off at my door in their ad's?

[/ QUOTE ]

They could....UPS pays folks pretty darn well.

 

[foztofly]

[ QUOTE ]
1. 15-year track record of sending 98% of our Flight Instructors to 26 Airlines.

The part they don't mention....
Pay is $10 an hour for CFI's.
You have to put in 800 hours as a CFI to get the airline interview.
You only get an "interview", no promise of a job. (thank goodness). But the above statement implies a job.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pay or time requirement has never been an issue that was hidden or not well known. They both have frequently been talked about on these threads alone. From my experience, I was told about these up-front when enrolling. However I did not know about the opportunity to earn bonuses each month in pay based on meeting or exceeding previous year's averages for flight time until I became an instructor. Every little bit helps, but again, I personally didn't make the decision to attend or work here based on the pay or cost of the program. As far as the "implication" of a job, it is all in how you decide to interpret the facts. I too would agree that the numbers suggest getting a job at the airlines, AFTER completing my contract, is an implication that I will get hired. The risk I was willing to take though to get into a jet.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone leaves before the 800 hours dual given, and gets hired at a regional, do you still consider you "sent" them to said regional?

If someone doesn't get hired at DCA, but ten years later still gets hired at a regional, are they part of the 98% figure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good questions that I have absolutely no idea what is the answer is.

 

[foztofly]

[ QUOTE ]
"2. We get you hired at the best quality airlines in the industry which fly jets."

Comair, ACA, ASA, Chautauqua.

As per the DCA website, the above are the airlines with the interview guarantee.

What airlines are quality and what aren't is subjective. You can look at hiring standards, the contract, balance sheet, recent growth, whatever....

In my book, Horizon and Skywest, (Skywest even does Delta flying) are the "best" quality. Why aren't those airlines mentioned as part of the guaranteed interview? Does DCA not consider Horizon or Skywest in the "best quality airline" group?

I'm sure Yankee One will say DCA grads have gone to both Horizon and Skywest but without them being part of the "guarantee" program, is it right to say DCA "got you hired"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Skywest and now American Eagle can be added to that list. Once again, I agree with you 727 in that it is subjective as to which are the best ones. What is best for one person may not be the best for another. I wouldn't mind flying for any of the above listed airlines myself.

 

[foztofly]

[ QUOTE ]
"4. Our graduates that are airline pilots will train you to fly RJ’s for our Delta Connection Carriers while you attend our Jet Bridge Program, which is a free course (value up to $6,208.00) for our Instructors."

A similar course, which you are traditionally paid to attend, is called "new hire initial training at the airline you got hired at"....

The vast majority of folks that get hired at the regionals don't attend a "jet bridge program", and yet seem to get hired and get through training all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, the "vast majority" probably do make it, although I have no experience or knowledge as to how many. Going into new hire training, I would feel a little more confident about my chances of being part of the vast majority though having had the free "jet bridge program" training. I can only imagine that it will help make the transition from a Cessna or Piper into the CRJ that much easier.

 

[derg]

I'm doing my best to stay out of the thread, but shouldn't ERAU claim that they've helped people reach everything from regional FO's to Air Force F-117 pilots?

 

[zsolez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Delta Connection Academy even throws in hordes of cockroaches and spiders in the apartments at no additional charge. Check you shoes before you put them on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would SO pass out. I'm more arachnophobic than 11 year old girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about frogs... on my standz vacation in Sanford I cought an average of 3-4 small baby frogs in my room before going to bed every night. It became a rituale. Then one day (true story) I am studying for one of the last tests and I reach into my pocket and there is a dead, dry, small frog in my pocket. I will try to figure it out for the rest of my life how it got there. My room was always locked where the shorts were so it wasn't my roomate. What was really weird that it was dry like it had been in the pocket for weeks... and I have only spent there like 10 days total.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I had a dead, dry toad that I found while I was at the School of Infantry.

I carried him around for my whole time in the grunts....he was my good luck charm!!

 

[planediveguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Delta Connection Academy even throws in hordes of cockroaches and spiders in the apartments at no additional charge. Check you shoes before you put them on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would SO pass out. I'm more arachnophobic than 11 year old girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude...

Try the NLP techinques for getting rid of fobias... I guess that guy... Anthony Robbins ( is that his name? ) in the book "Unlimited Power" talks about it... Anyhow I was arachnophobic as well and after doing a few mental exercises I can now play and handle those big tarantulas... ( no, I don't have them as pets...)