Welcome to XJT: The New America West/US Airways

Bama said:
Why do you say that? The letter stated that the ERJ side refuses to accept that the company is struggling financially and that they won't entertain the idea of flightline pbs. All of this is pretty verifiable on any web board.
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I have had the MEC Chair himself tell me we are bleeding money and will be out of money by the end of the year. That info has been sent in many communication emails from the MEC to the pilot group as well. The inefficiencies are not all pilot group problems. Many are CPA problems with United. Skywest themselves having admitted that during the last shareholder call (I seriously did listen in). Also the OCC has fallen on its face as well several times causing problems within the system.

Flightline has many inefficiencies due to the fact of how the background work is done. Smartpref does not have those inefficiencies and that makes it more desirable. Also schedules get built quicker and your bidding is essentially done in real time. A new build runs every 10-15 minutes and shows you your current award based on the bids that have already been made.

I wouldn't mind seeing the presentations they have for both Smartpref and Flightline to properly compare them.

Ultimately the PBS process agreement allows for 2 different PBS systems to be used in the JCBA or an LOA. Flightline can be saved for the CRJ guys if that is what ends up happening.
 
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I hope management is appreciating the irony in this situation. Normally they would be overjoyed that they've got pilots fighting with each other over such silliness, but now they actually need to get something done and can't because the pilots are too busy fighting with each other. I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't such scum.

Smartpref? Seriously? Pilots are their own worst enemies.
 
Flyjustin said:
I know were not struggling. SKYW has plenty to pony up. They probably purchased us like TSA purchased Compass, for another cheap way to whipsaw (along with all those CAL routes) Well I for one being a pro unity airline know we can have much more. Skywest is not cool with our pilot group getting better pay/QOL than SKYW. well tough! If skywest isn't gunna pony up sell us back to united! Maybe they can realize pilots NEED a union. I'm a NO voter until we get Air Wiskey + 1. They have deep pockets. Let them bleed until they tell united to pay inc. more.
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ATN_Pilot said:
Smartpref? Seriously? Pilots are their own worst enemies.
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Ultimately what I am finding as a line pilot is that there is pretty much no public information about flightline. Went to the website for Flightline and it was extremely basic with no information other than "Hey, Sabre owns us now!" Smartpref has a website explaining everything. Makes it very hard to compare the two together.

Derg said:
Navteq is awesome. Remember PBS does not equal PBS universally. You need software, QC and the ability to say "Nope, do it again"
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That kind of exists as I understand it under Flightline but the "Nope, do it again" is instead "Hey lets flip a coin".
 
PBS is not PBS.

PBS is a "philosophy".

It would be like grouping Fascism, Hinduism and Naziism in the same paragraph because, after all, they're all philosophies. Even the "best" PBS needs a structure and an underlying "methodology" behind it and without that structure, you're just going to epically screw yourself.

Don't fear PBS and also don't champion it either. There is a lot more. But what the hell do I know, do what you want to do, but when you bitch about it, I'm going to belittle you. :)
 
@ATN_Pilot You make it sound like I should just bend over and take whatever PBS is chosen for me up the rear. I haven't bought into the fight. I left several statements showing that I don't know the specifics of what the differen't systems offer. Obviously there is a lot more to this stuff than the software but in my attempt to figure out whats best I'm told that my efforts are absurd.

When did trying to educate oneself become a bad thing?

Anyway I just found the research stuff for PBS XJT's ALPA site and I'll be reading that. For whatever reason a lot of the downloadable stuff did not show up for me until a couple weeks ago.
 
Derg said:
PBS is not PBS.

PBS is a "philosophy".

It would be like grouping Fascism, Hinduism and Naziism in the same paragraph because, after all, they're all philosophies. Even the "best" PBS needs a structure and an underlying "methodology" behind it and without that structure, you're just going to epically screw yourself.

Don't fear PBS and also don't champion it either. There is a lot more. But what the hell do I know, do what you want to do, but when you bitch about it, I'm going to belittle you. :)
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I completely understand this and I have been saying that the quality of PBS will be what is negotiated but ATN_Pilot made a blank statement of

ATN_Pilot said:
Smartpref? Seriously? Pilots are their own worst enemies.
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and I wonder what is wrong with the software itself. I go try to find research to compare the two and all I could find were the websites. Then I get chastised for trying to educate myself.
 
Maurus said:
@ATN_Pilot You make it sound like I should just bend over and take whatever PBS is chosen for me up the rear. I haven't bought into the fight. I left several statements showing that I don't know the specifics of what the differen't systems offer. Obviously there is a lot more to this stuff than the software but in my attempt to figure out whats best I'm told that my efforts are absurd.

When did trying to educate oneself become a bad thing?

Anyway I just found the research stuff for PBS XJT's ALPA site and I'll be reading that. For whatever reason a lot of the downloadable stuff did not show up for me until a couple weeks ago.
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If you have any questions, shoot any of the ASA guys on here a message.

We were all skeptical about PBS. When our union said "hey guys, we decided to start talking to the company on our own about PBS" we pretty much freaked out.

Then the details came out and we were mostly on the fence. Then the vote passed (I voted yes, but not because I was excited, but rather I thought a one year extension on our contract was a good idea given current conditions) and it has turned out to be pretty fantastic.

You say there isn't any info out about it...but there are about 1600 of us who use it monthly who you can talk to.
 
Flyjustin said:
I know were not struggling. SKYW has plenty to pony up. They probably purchased us like TSA purchased Compass, for another cheap way to whipsaw (along with all those CAL routes) Well I for one being a pro unity airline know we can have much more. Skywest is not cool with our pilot group getting better pay/QOL than SKYW. well tough! If skywest isn't gunna pony up sell us back to united! Maybe they can realize pilots NEED a union. I'm a NO voter until we get Air Wiskey + 1. They have deep pockets. Let them bleed until they tell united to pay inc. more.
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There's a difference between having deep pockets and being profitable. American Airlines had roughly $1 billion in the bank when they filed for bankruptcy.

Perspective.
 
Maurus said:
That kind of exists as I understand it under Flightline but the "Nope, do it again" is instead "Hey lets flip a coin".
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There's the problem. You guys don't even remotely know exactly how in depth our pbs bid solutions are run, and you don't really care to find out. One system is proven and has an almost 100% approvability rating and the other has never been used by any pilot group ...and you are willing to stall negotiations for 4 years because you think the awards are based on a coin flip.
 
I don't think the stalling and dragging of feet has anything to do with pbs and more to do with hitting Skywest where it hurts.. This is all about wanting one list or nothing and to hell with the collateral damage of the ASA pilots.
 
Bama said:
I don't think the stalling and dragging of feet has anything to do with pbs and more to do with hitting Skywest where it hurts.. This is all about wanting one list or nothing and to hell with the collateral damage of the ASA pilots.
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The only solution to whipsaw is one list. Advocating for anything else is against the principles of trade unionism.
 
Flyjustin said:
I know were not struggling. SKYW has plenty to pony up. They probably purchased us like TSA purchased Compass, for another cheap way to whipsaw (along with all those CAL routes) Well I for one being a pro unity airline know we can have much more. Skywest is not cool with our pilot group getting better pay/QOL than SKYW. well tough! If skywest isn't gunna pony up sell us back to united! Maybe they can realize pilots NEED a union. I'm a NO voter until we get Air Wiskey + 1. They have deep pockets. Let them bleed until they tell united to pay inc. more.
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Bama said:
There's the problem. You guys don't even remotely know exactly how in depth our pbs bid solutions are run, and you don't really care to find out. One system is proven and has an almost 100% approvability rating and the other has never been used by any pilot group ...and you are willing to stall negotiations for 4 years because you think the awards are based on a coin flip.
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Where did I say I am willing to delay negotiations? PBS should have been figured out several years ago.
 
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