Seggy
Well-Known Member
Things got worse on the ExCo since I left?
Welcome to the Rest of your Career: Redux
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
Things got worse on the ExCo since I left?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It's not a lack of focus that's the problem; it's too big of a focus on the issues of lesser importance. While Nero has been playing his Emirates fiddle, regional airline Rome has been burning to the ground. He'll keep fiddling while the earth is salted, too. The level of focus is actually incredibly intense. It borders on obsession. Just on the wrong thing.
What should we really be focusing on? The FFD carriers. The bankruptcy code. The next bargaining cycle. Lots of things should be a higher priority. But one thing is for sure: putting out press release after press release about a damned customs pre-clearance facility in Abu Dhabi while the Comair, Pinnacle, PSA, Eagle, and now ASA/XJT pilots get railroaded is completely insane.
Thanks to the wonderful staff, the day-to-day issues that pilots face are generally handled very well. From LOIs, to incidents and accidents, to medical issues, all of that is handled quite well. Probably because the politicians have little to do with it.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, pretty much the same. I'm just losing my patience.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
A4A has quite an extensive lobbying arm, just saying.
Yes, ALPA is fighting the same fight from a "labor" perspective, but the A4A is running an impressive campaign on their own.
One of the best strategic campaigns (National Airline Policy) I have seen in a few years to be honest.
Yes, ALPA is fighting the same fight from a "labor" perspective, but the A4A is running an impressive campaign on their own.
One of the best strategic campaigns (National Airline Policy) I have seen in a few years to be honest.
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Yes, the National Airline Policy campaign is excellent. And I have no problem backing them up on that, or the Gulf carriers issue. My problem is that it's become the top priority, and even a singular focus. Meanwhile, the true labor issues are not being addressed.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
ATN_Pilot said:
Right, okay.
I recognize your real problem with what ALPA Top "leaders" are doing now.
The singular focus on the success of the pilot profession being contingent in defending a threat that does not have the legs to actually pose a threat; and yet, ALPA has allowed the FFD pilot groups to drown without as so much batting an eye.
I don't disagree with you there Todd.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
That isn't entirely true.
ALPA spend a few million on a 'Fee For Departure Working Group' where a certain pilot was on full Flight Pay Loss for a period of four years, where he ran a handful of meetings, held monthly conference calls, and attempted to try to get everyone on the same page to raise the bar. What is there to show from this?
NOTHING!
It was an utter failure as this certain pilot was then the MEC Chair at Endeavor that led the pilot group through the Bankruptcy and their current contract. People forget that they are line pilots first and then volunteer for ALPA secondly.
ALPA spend a few million on a 'Fee For Departure Working Group' where a certain pilot was on full Flight Pay Loss for a period of four years, where he ran a handful of meetings, held monthly conference calls, and attempted to try to get everyone on the same page to raise the bar. What is there to show from this?
NOTHING!
It was an utter failure as this certain pilot was then the MEC Chair at Endeavor that led the pilot group through the Bankruptcy and their current contract. People forget that they are line pilots first and then volunteer for ALPA secondly.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
It's my own (probably outspoken and possibly grossly inaccurate) position that most regional airlines we have now in the United States will either cease to exist or have to radically overhaul themselves (their fleets, their practices, their business - the whole deal) between now and 2020.
But you're right - things are bad with "the profession" at the entry level for many reasons, and I don't see any positive movement by anyone on that front - even at companies that make money.
STOP THE WHIPSAW!!!!!!!1111one
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Then perhaps we're in agreement that the floor is still in danger of being cut out from under us.
As for the day to day, at my carrier we're still having a hard time getting past "fly it and grieve it" even when it's a blatant contract violation. Politics have just as much to do with it when you're dealing with contract legalities.
As for national, while I agree that cabotage is a serious issue, I think such things often become a lightning rod bullet point- like 'crew pass' was under the previous ALPA prez. It gets all the press and is the point of where ALPA seems to focus its ire, but other important, less controversial issues get railroaded.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Do you think that would necessarily stop things? After Eagle pilots passed on the new equipment TA, AA took it to PSA. PSA pilots voted in favor. Both carriers are ALPA represented. If pilot groups govern themselves individually, does having the same parent union really matter? Especially when ALPA national has turned a blind eye to regional carriers?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Okay @Seggy
Besides a few well written articles in the National fast read about the FFD WG, what work was accomplished?
I have my opinion and I won't cloud the discussion with it, but why did it fall short? Was it a bulldog with no teeth or fight? What gives?
Feel free to lay it out there for those who are not as dialed in as some of us.
As MEC Chairman of a FFD pilot group, at one time, I commend you for embracing emerging technology to engage in this discussion. It's a shame more "leaders" are afraid to engage with their members through media that their members actually utilize.
Besides a few well written articles in the National fast read about the FFD WG, what work was accomplished?
I have my opinion and I won't cloud the discussion with it, but why did it fall short? Was it a bulldog with no teeth or fight? What gives?
Feel free to lay it out there for those who are not as dialed in as some of us.
As MEC Chairman of a FFD pilot group, at one time, I commend you for embracing emerging technology to engage in this discussion. It's a shame more "leaders" are afraid to engage with their members through media that their members actually utilize.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
That's why I said ALPA needs to fix itself inside and out.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Honestly, absolutely nothing. Looking back, it was a way for someone to be on full time flight pay loss. Bravo to him for figuring that out.
Also the Delta regional working group a failure.
While it was a good idea, it fell short as there was no way to accomplish the goal of the FFD working group. As we saw with the Endeavor contract, when push came to shove, the regional pilots choose to secure their own future rather than hold the line. Now, I honestly can't blame any pilot at Endeavor for voting for that contract to secure their livelihood, however, the FFD working group was an utter failure because of the need for the individual pilot group to secure their future. If it wasn't going to be Endeavor it would have been someone else to start the plunge back down.
Finally, what didn't help with these failures is you have nonunion and under represented regional airlines out there. With the Skywest, RAH, GoJets, etc., of the world out there, it is harder to bring everyone up.
Well, there are real perils of posting on here when in a leadership role at ALPA. I am now just a worker bee.
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Seggy
Well-Known Member
Let me ask you and @amorris311 the following question as he also called me today to bitch at me.
As ALPA President, how would y'all 'fix' the FFD carriers?
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SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Regarding Skywest damaging our negotiating position as a union... How is that so... They have industry average / leading pay and work "rules". Something we are missing. If they are a threat to have flying transferred to them... Why? The primary argument I was given to vote myself out of a job was that "other" better paying regionals ALPA represents could pick it up. So did Endeavor "Skywest" the rest of ALPA FFD guys?
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
I think that ALPA, as currently structured, is not really prepared to fully meet the needs of all pilots it represents. Previously, 'outsourcing' usually meant an obvious scope violation at a mainline carrier, or an attempt to bring scabs on board. Now, it's just part of the business, with regional feed swallowing up a huge portion of total revenue. I think that obviously opposing interests have left ALPA divided within itself.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Were only National as interested in organizing non-union and non-ALPA carriers as they are at beating the war-drum against foreign carriers... Sometimes it seems as if they've thrown out the baby with the bath water.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Think about it this way. What would have happened if Colgan didn't unionize?
Look how we were given the Q400 flying.
