Weight And Balance Issues in the Majors?

[Nick]

Ummmm . . .

What -- do you think that a pilot will face some kind of punishment if they can't get every seat filled due to a weight restriction?

 

[Ralgha]

But I have NEVER myself or have seen a captain take off out of CG or above legal weight.

You will, probably not on paper, but I guarantee that you will in reality. The W&B estimates are so inaccurate it's hilarious. The way we do CG seems to be fairly accurate, but the weight? What a joke!

 

[casey]

What -- do you think that a pilot will face some kind of punishment if they can't get every seat filled due to a weight restriction?

i guess you dont commute.

 

[Nick]

i guess you dont commute.

Incorrect guess.

I've done a trans-con commute and currently do a shorter haul commute.

What does that have to do with it?



If a flight needs an alternate, or there a lot of bags, or whatever the case may be:

the PIC of that flight should not be creating make-believe half weights and putting it on the weight and balance.​

Period.
Paragraph.

Anyone who does that does not even value their own pilot certificate!

The FAA can be standing in the jetway upon arrival counting the number of kids and comparing it to the weight and balance. They have done that and I certainly would not be the one to come up with an explanation as to why there are six kids on the paperwork but none on the airplane, and that the difference in the two weights makes the flight overweight.

 

[cime_sp]

Incorrect guess.

I've done a trans-con commute and currently do a shorter haul commute.

What does that have to do with it?



If a flight needs an alternate, or there a lot of bags, or whatever the case may be:

the PIC of that flight should not be creating make-believe half weights and putting it on the weight and balance.​

Period.
Paragraph.

Anyone who does that does not even value their own pilot certificate!

The FAA can be standing in the jetway upon arrival counting the number of kids and comparing it to the weight and balance. They have done that and I certainly would not be the one to come up with an explanation as to why there are six kids on the paperwork but none on the airplane, and that the difference in the two weights makes the flight overweight.

I think what he was referring to was when airlines use the "wiz-wheel". There can be a LOT of fudging involved in order to make things work. Not to mention, two people can spin the same problem and get different answers.....they may be in the same ballpark, but still different...you generally go with what works. At ASA, if we have a jumpseater, many times the ACARS "won't work"...ie "no comm". So unfortunately *cough cough* we have to figure things with the wiz wheel to see IF they will work. Remarkably, the jumpseater usually gets on.

 

[Nick]

I think what he was referring to was when airlines use the "wiz-wheel". There can be a LOT of fudging involved in order to make things work. Not to mention, two people can spin the same problem and get different answers.....they may be in the same ballpark, but still different...you generally go with what works. At ASA, if we have a jumpseater, many times the ACARS "won't work"...ie "no comm". So unfortunately *cough cough* we have to figure things with the wiz wheel to see IF they will work. Remarkably, the jumpseater usually gets on.

I know what you mean.

I've spun the wheel and know how it works too. I think we all agree that weight and balance with standard weights finishing with a trim wheel is a perfect example of the expression:

Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe.

But an FAA inspector can take the wheel and the paperwork, sit down and carefully and precisely work out an exact final setting on that wheel and THAT is the one that matters. If a crew's setting was way off and not even close to that they would have a tough time explaining why the ACARS broke when there was a jumpseater trying to get on and whoever spun the wheel did an extremely inaccurate CG calculation that happened to work in the jumpseater's favor.

I know and you know that if it's on the border it could be well within or well outside the range since the actual weights of the airplane's contents are not really known but on paper it has to work or you are just putting your certificate at risk for no reason.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I think it's funny that this story was about American Eagle, but the thread title talks about "Majors".

Gee, if only I'd know I was already in the big time.

Funny, doesn't feel like it.