We all want the same thing...

Fireflights said:
Not really a background in hitting people, just a strong opinion that some members of society could use a bit of physical feedback when their behavior becomes uncivilized.

Yeah, I know, "sink to their level" etc...
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I know what you mean, I comment because I brought up my personal background to give some perspective on my opinion recently and I was apparently giving a resume of my badassness. It seems to me it's ok to bring up some past experiences, but some other things though make people feel uncomfortable. Makes me think that if you used to be an entrepreneur it's ok to off-handedly joke about slapping people for being uncouth, but if you actually hit people (when they consented) then it's not acceptable.
 
Seggy said:
Oh, I know ALPA is far from perfect.
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That's what cracks me up. All of these ALPA haters like to claim that people like us are "ALPA cheerleaders," when the reality is that when we were hanging around in Herndon or DC, we were usually talking about the problems and what needed to be fixed.

Bitching for the sake of bitching and constantly playing the blame game is for pathetic amateurs. Step up to the plate and make a difference and stop talking empty trash if you want to be treated with respect by the people who have "been there, done that."
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Don't come into a heavily unionized industry spouting your anti-union nonsense if you don't want to get push-back. And as usual, I agree with the Wookie. Anything I say here, I'll say to your face.
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This is what I'm talking about. All I did was ask a question, and right on cue, here comes this guy with his vitriol.
 
See, there are people who don't believe in unions, and yet here they seem to be a right wing construct.

I can't understand how people decry socialism and 'european' values and yet salute the union, when Unions are a socialist ideal.
 
ahw01 said:
See, there are people who don't believe in unions, and yet here they seem to be a right wing construct.

I can't understand how people decry socialism and 'european' values and yet salute the union, when Unions are a socialist ideal.
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I think airline pilots tend to be conservative while at the same time most are pro-union. You have to do this job to understand how important unions are in the biz. The union is a huge factor in "protecting" pilots from the company that puts profit over safety. Pilots are the last line of defense in the safety chain. Without the backing of a union it would be much harder to make some calls. Airline pilots being pro-union has nothing to do with political views, left or right.
 
I'm a non-union airline pilot for almost 3 years now. Profits over safety? I haven't seen it. The profit over safety was in the early years of aviation starting from the 1930s. We were one of the first to have fleet wide EFBs, certification for RNPs down to 0.1, new moving map EFBs for taxiing and approach. We need ALPA here but "profit over safety" is not the reason.

IMO a merger is likely in the next 5-10 years and whether it's jetBlue, Alaska, Hawaiian, or any legacy except AA, they are all ALPA. We need to be represented by the same umbrella to expect any fair treatment in a merger scenario.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I'm a non-union airline pilot for almost 3 years now. Profits over safety? I haven't seen it. The profit over safety was in the early years of aviation starting from the 1930s. We were one of the first to have fleet wide EFBs, certification for RNPs down to 0.1, new moving map EFBs for taxiing and approach. We need ALPA here but "profit over safety" is not the reason.
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I saw profits over safety at Colgan in 2008 when we were nonunion.

Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about.
 
Seggy said:
I saw profits over safety at Colgan in 2008 when we were nonunion.

Once again, you have no clue what you are talking about
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Oh, sorry I wasn't talking about FFD contract regional carriers. Then yes they are profit over safety, they always were. That's one reason the regional accident record speaks for itself over the last 25 years when compared to the major carriers.
 
Sorry if I sound like I'm beating a dead horse but until you have flown for both union and non-union don't complain about how bad your union is. Having worked at both (and never been a Ra Ra Union guy) I will say this, I will NEVER voluntarily go to a non-union airline again. EVER. Is the union perfect? No, but until you manage to trade days off, buy plane tickets for vacation, only to have your schedule reworked two weeks later and eat the money for vacation, because the company "at will" changed your schedule with NO recourse, will you understand the value of a union. And yes I saw profits over EVERYTHING at the non-union carrier I worked for, and before you say anything yes I worked in the safety department so I got a first had view of the show.
 
Eagle421flyer said:
Sorry if I sound like I'm beating a dead horse but until you have flown for both union and non-union don't complain about how bad your union is. Having worked at both (and never been a Ra Ra Union guy) I will say this, I will NEVER voluntarily go to a non-union airline again. EVER. Is the union perfect? No, but until you manage to trade days off, buy plane tickets for vacation, only to have your schedule reworked two weeks later and eat the money for vacation, because the company "at will" changed your schedule with NO recourse, will you understand the value of a union. And yes I saw profits over EVERYTHING at the non-union carrier I worked for, and before you say anything yes I worked in the safety department so I got a first had view of the show.
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What airline is this for? Are we talking Part 121 airlines? I only know of VX and SKY as non-union. I've never had any schedule changes just because they could do it. And in all cases, I was displaced and released with pay or re-assigned with pay protection.
 
Here's the problem. Most of us do want the same thing, but there are those who completely ignore others and are willing to step on our necks to make sure they get ahead.

Until that stops, the disfunction will continue.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What airline is this for? Are we talking Part 121 airlines? I only know of VX and SKY as non-union. I've never had any schedule changes just because they could do it. And in all cases, I was displaced and released with pay or re-assigned with pay protection.
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Yes it was/is a 121 airline that I was at, they did vote a union in, I was on the oc for it.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Here's the problem. Most of us do want the same thing, but there are those who completely ignore others and are willing to step on our necks to make sure they get ahead.

Until that stops, the disfunction will continue.
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That is just a side affect/consequence of a seniority based system. Your entire life depends on that seniority number. Get it early and at the right time, you will soar through your airline career.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Thanks. I had no idea. I'm just keeping my middle to low seniority number at my regional because I thoought it was cool before everyone else did.

/sarcasm
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It was in response to the guy who said some will ignore others and step on a neck to get ahead. In a seniority system, another person's career well-being does not come into play to secure your spot. No one will care what the other guy does or is doing. Every pilot group, and every pilot, wants what's best for itself/themselves.
 
Bonanzaman said:
I comment because I brought up my personal background to give some perspective on my opinion recently and I was apparently giving a resume of my badassness.
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Heh, if you're talking about my comment, like, weeks ago, IMS you said something like "If people need to tell you how (honest, tough, cool, nice, etc) they are, they probably aren't". Then you dropped your resume as a bare-knuckled brawler, etc etc. All in the service of discrediting what someone else said (someone who, if memory further serves, had a bit more immediate and one might imagine applicable knowledge about the subject in question). Surely you see the congruence, even if you don't agree?

Was not meant to start a Thing. I think your posts are usually pretty cool, fwiw. Now, please Hammer Don't Hurt Em! :D
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It was in response to the guy who said some will ignore others and step on a neck to get ahead. In a seniority system, another person's career well-being does not come into play to secure your spot. No one will care what the other guy does or is doing. Every pilot group, and every pilot, wants what's best for itself/themselves.
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Why don't you get off your soapbox of drivel and volunteer for your pilot group instead of attempt to be an internet badass?
 
Seggy said:
Why don't you get off your soapbox of drivel and volunteer for your pilot group instead of attempt to be an internet badass?
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Ouch. Something hurt? As for the help part, officially it's "no comment" and there are reasons for that. Anyway, IMO there will be ALPA here in 2015. My guess is a 70-80% pass.
 
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