ways to go from CPL to 1000TT w/o CFI'ing?

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slushie said:
I'm not a CFI (yet), but I've taught a non-pilot how to maintain altitude, how to triangulate our position using a single VOR reciever. How to read a sectional, AFD, etc. He was a great help over Kansas.

"Crew" Resource Management? How about five-planes-flying-in-formation-management?
Did that for about 150 hours.

How about whole days trying to coordinate non-stop drop times with three jump planes, all of different speeds and climb rates - from several different altitudes?

Have you ever done the "holding pattern" into AirVenture?

etc, etc, etc.

I'm not a CFI yet, I must be worthless.

TXaviator, You like airplanes. Go fly airplanes. Simple.

We're not all made the same. We're not cookie cuttered versions of each other.
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Formation flying and CRM don't go together. Read the definition of CRM and the scenarios the airlines, military, and FAA interpret them.

Why is it that when CFI's, 135 pilots, 121 pilots, and others with more experience than you speak, you discredit what they have to say?

If you can't hack being a CFI, buy a bunch of hours and fly a jump plane. Just understand that the hours accumulated by traffic watch, flying jumpers, and even 135 VFR are often frowned at by airlines and fractionals.

If you already know that answer or don't want to hear criticism from pilots who've been there and done that, don't post it on a public forum.
 
taseal said:
serious dude? CRM? CFI?

my CFIs most of the time sit next to me, and critique how I do my manuevers. it even says SRM on most of the lessons...

the only advantage of CFI I think is the amount of knowledge they get from the students asking 'what if' and they have to look it up if they don't know it. and they always have most of the stuff in their head since they have to teach it...
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Are you a CFI?

I would like someone with a fair amount of CFI time to disagree.

No offense but dont "dude" me and then say "I think".
 
meritflyer said:
If you can't hack being a CFI
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Nope just not in the budget at the moment.

I flew skydivers and traffic watch because it was a helluva better deal than:

-Fueling 172's all day.
-Cleaning out Penske trucks.
-"Assisting" some plumbers.
-Working at a casino.
-Working for my mom (eek!)

I'm just pissed that in an effort to "provide advice" everyone has to say non-cfi, non-crew flying does nothing for you.
 
We've hired some guys with just their comm to do scenic tours, but they are usually local dudes that really know the area and are either retired or are teachers/ professors that want to get paid to fly for the summer.

Its tough to break into the non CFI jobs but can be done.
 
slushie said:
I'm just pissed that in an effort to "provide advice" everyone has to say non-cfi, non-crew flying does nothing for you.
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Thats advice though. It might not be what you want to hear....

Not that it does nothing for you, it just puts you at a disadvantage.
 
my main problem with this thread is the "you should really be a CFI" advice was specifically NOT solicited for this discussion. thats fine, ive heard it before. it doesnt make me hard-headed for wanting to investigate the other side of the coin.:panic:
 
Something else to think about...

The fact that the original poster is coming on here trying to find a non-cfi job is another reason to...well CFI.

I've have seen dozens of CFI's go further in their career because of all the contacts they made as a CFI. I just got a job because a former CFI called me and told me to send in a resume and gave me a nice referral.

Networking and making contacts will take you a long way in this buisness.
 
ryanmickG said:
Something else to think about...

The fact that the original poster is coming on here trying to find a non-cfi job is another reason to...well CFI.

I've have seen dozens of CFI's go further in their career because of all the contacts they made as a CFI. I just got a job because a former CFI called me and told me to send in a resume and gave me a nice referral.

Networking and making contacts will take you a long way in this buisness.
Click to expand...

and only flight instructors network
 
If you REALLY don't want to CFI....then stick to your guns. At least it will be one less instructor who only cares about time building versus teaching.

You have other options, some limited, and most quite expensive:

Partnership in a 152/172....probably cost maybe $10,000 for a 1/2 to 1/4 share. Of course all the variable costs are extra.

Throw down the same amount and buy a block of SIC timebuilding.....Eagle Jet, Alpine Air come to mind.

Pay....I dunno....$25,000 and get "hired" at Gulfstream and be guaranteed 250 hours in the right seat of a B1900.

Spend $13,000 or so at MAPD bridge program, it will take you from wet Comm/Multi to the right seat of a CRJ....assuming Mesa is still in business when you graduate.

Anyway, I didn't mean to sound gloomy with these options, you WILL have to pay your dues, one way or another (instructing or spending $$$....).
 
taseal said:
serious dude? CRM? CFI?

my CFIs most of the time sit next to me, and critique how I do my manuevers. it even says SRM on most of the lessons...

the only advantage of CFI I think is the amount of knowledge they get from the students asking 'what if' and they have to look it up if they don't know it. and they always have most of the stuff in their head since they have to teach it...
Click to expand...

slushie said:
I'm not a CFI (yet), but I've taught a non-pilot how to maintain altitude, how to triangulate our position using a single VOR reciever. How to read a sectional, AFD, etc. He was a great help over Kansas.

"Crew" Resource Management? How about five-planes-flying-in-formation-management?
Did that for about 150 hours.

How about whole days trying to coordinate non-stop drop times with three jump planes, all of different speeds and climb rates - from several different altitudes?

Have you ever done the "holding pattern" into AirVenture?

etc, etc, etc.

I'm not a CFI yet, I must be worthless.

TXaviator, You like airplanes. Go fly airplanes. Simple.

We're not all made the same. We're not cookie cuttered versions of each other.
Click to expand...


To be honest, you really don't have the experience to do much of anything yet. Thats why people a pouring the CFI route down your throat. It's the easiest and best way to get from point A (a newbie in the industry) to point B (where some of the people who are telling you to be a CFI are at). Theses days you could make really good cash as a CFI in a lot of places also.

You may be able to find some type of side gig with your time, but I highly doubt it.

My advice would be (since you're required to get you CFI tickets for your degree) to give instructing a shot and see how you like it. I didn't think that I would be any good at it either. But I worked hard at it and it made me a much better pilot.

One of the things that you should recognize in this thread is that many of us have been where you are now. I was just as bright eyed, bushy tailed, and wanted to take the industry over by storm when I first got my commercial. I searched around some and realized I really wasn't qualified to do anything. I'm sure that many others in this thread came up to the same result.;)
 
TXaviator said:
that was the original spirit and intention of this thread.
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But you're trying to network with a bunch of people that dont really know you. And by know you I mean your work ethics and how you perfom in the cockpit.

"This dude seems cool on the internet so I'm going to put my neck and reputation on the line to refer him to my company" is not a good networking tool.

I have talked to a bunch of people on the phone and through e-mails that seemed to be really good people. Not when I got them in an aiplane though....:)
 
CFIing is the best way to go end of discussion.

CFIing teaches you to become a better flight manager, which in reality is all pilots do. I would say besides military training, being a CFI makes you the best pilot one can be. I've flown with guys who went to TAB/Gulfstream to military instructors and you can easily tell a persons background. The best are those that had an instructional background.

Sorry it is not up for debate. You want to be the best pilot you can be, get your CFI. Then make yourself instruct for a few hundred hours and push yourself to improve your skills. It is a cop out to say 'I am not meant to teach in an airplane.' Sorry, unless you try it don't say it.

To the original poster, stop thinking about other ways to build your time. Get your CFI, instruct for a few hundred hours then make a decision on your next move.
 
Seggy hit the nail on the head 100%.

There are other ways but IMO, you either want to be an aviator or a pilot. Again IMO, being a CFI will make you that aviator. Building time is just that, time.

There is a reason multiple airlines won't accept or highly discourage banner towing, traffic watch, and flying jumpers.
 
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