Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Or your tutu, which.
Wanna pilot job at Delta?
- Thread starter Cptnchia
- Start date
Or your tutu, which.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
That's our MEC chairman's letter. And to us, its not a grievous over-reaction, for it to be dropped during the information stage of a TA...
I'm glad to see its just an experiment to see if there's interest, but you have to at least see why people at our level would be upset about it.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
No. Don't see why you would be upset. You're upset because you want the job handed to you.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
We're not asking for flow, which is a job being handed to you. We're upset because we've been made to believe that our MEC was told any kind of contractual career progression (which half the company had) was not on the table.
They just put the value of 5 years of bag throwing and 100 hours of 152 time equal to that of being a 121 captain, flying DL pax, for 2 years.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
When you get older you'll learn egalitarianism is a good thing and some leadership theories, of which you can keep or toss because there are many, would tell you somewhere buried in your ranks is a rampie that should be the next VP of operations and a gate agent that should be your next CEO.
However you probably, in your heart recognize this, and what you meant to say was 'it feels like we're on the bottom of a lot of lists for Delta for unearned reasons, and while i respect a company gets to hire whoever they want without prejudice I'm concerned there's only going to be a future here once I leave and i feel I'd be a good match for Delta and bring as much to the table as other hard working delta people."
If it's bad leave, many of us did (by many i mean more than half) and you will not get much sympathy in this hiring climate with pilots who made less as captains than you did as an FO dollar to dollar while in the regionals.
American is an egalitarian group and Envoy is hiring. Patience isn't easy.
You're doing great but take a breather because these guys on this board wake up early for this discussion and you'll never get anywhere.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
So your opinion is, if you don't like the system, just change, don't fight to improve it?
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Why don't you try to better your resume and get out instead? Are you in ATL this weekend? Relying on others to get you a job doesn't really work all that well. Besides once you're finally there for an interview, it's all on you anyways. Earn it.
I'm all for a flow BTW IF it's there when you get hired but arguing to get one after is poor form.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I watched piles of pilots sacrifice their time on the alter of "making a change". Historically I've seen it work rarely if ever, but there's always a declaration of victory by the burnt, broken, and bruised as if their sacrifice did anything except help shape events as economic and sizmic forces changed the direction of the battle nearly single handedly. Theyd believe they were heros slaying dragons. I would say, fight if you want and help shape it, you might even be counted in the small number of pilots who trick a company into doing right by you, but *a list of names you wouldn't know and a few you did but didn't realize what they did* aren't walking through that door.
Pilots (maybe all people) want to believe they traveled the road less traveled. As a type A person who believes their decisions and actions matter and you can bend reality with your bare hands you refuse to believe patience is more important than passion. That voting with your feet is more important than public displays of angst.
The fact is Endeavor is what it is because the majority of pilots told Delta, endeavor and specifically BW and PR that if you say "if you don't like it, then leave" then you can fly those planes yourself. Furthermore, if Wisconsin hadn't peed on Delta while throwing their money back in their face you wouldn't have had a giant 200 growth until the rest of the airplanes came. Fortunately for you, the lead negotiator was still 1-4 months from his PSA classdate, as were nearly 320 other endeavor pilots and the pilots who weren't first out the door had the ability and desire to fix nearly everything over 2 years. Fix everything purposely broken due to a vision of the future disconnected from reality by a fired executive leadership team that hated you because you flew people for a living and either werent prior military and stunk of Comair or had more than 8 days off a month. I suppose one was laterally promoted with the promise he'd be right back and never was.
The choice is yours to make, and you must make it yourself. In the meantime i would caution you on your tone and righteousness. Not because you're undeserved of an opinion, but understand you're one voice full of sound an fury signifying nothing. You're not bad or wrong, you're just small and no one on here is a decision maker. You have, at best well connected pilots who cheerlead the group that pays their mortgage and feeds their kids and provides for them in their age.
Im going to guess that you fly more and take less days off than 90% of your peers. I would bet you'd walk through fire if management told you to if you felt it was right. The truth is you're trying very hard to be true to yourself and what you see yourself as, the hardest working mo'fo' at endeavor. Mellinials don't actually want more than others, they just want a company working as hard for them as they work back, they see employment as a symbiosis and not a heirarchy. That isn't bad it's just culturally different.
You are close to burnout. You need about 12 days off in a row. For me that's shooting guns and volunteering and reading and drinking. You can't burnout.
You are close. You don't see it. Ive seen it before and first hand.
Cloud Surfer
All Roads lead to Trantor
At least Endeavor pilots have a guaranteed interview! At SkyWest it's every person for themself...you have to fight for every tiny scrap of worth to make your resume shine...and some still never get an interview! Count your blessings, KSCessnaDriver.
Ayork62493
GBR
At OO I'm also working 100+ hours a month with no end in sight. 11 days off each month. I've only been here for two years so I try not to complain but I am getting burned out and seeing a 200 makes me nauseous.
Cloud Surfer
All Roads lead to Trantor
Same here. PBS was giving me one 3 day and a 2 day back to back with 2 days off before a new trip. I started getting sick more often. Ever since then I am fine with 85 hrs of block per month. This job will take its toll on your health if you let it. I try to max out my credit and get as many days off that I can. Whatever I get in terms of block comes third in order of priority. .
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Reading comprehension not a strong suit, eh? I (and most of us) aren't asking for a flow (which I've now said 3 times). We want something that is contractual, even if its just a contractual assurance of the DGI. I'm not dense enough to think we can demand a flow, because, well, it ain't going to happen. You know what else, I'd love to see you guys take the 900's to mainline, but again, not likely.
I'd be hurt by a flow more than helped. Rather than 2 year or whatever to interview, I'd be 6+ years from moving on, for what its worth. As for your ATL question this weekend, yes, I work this weekend, and yes, I worked the times the job fair was open. Additionally, I'm not convinced that with my lack of total fixed wing time, it would have been worth my time to go to the event, versus letting people who are qualified for the job go.
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KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
And at a moments notice, it can be taken, since it's not contractual. And that's the issue.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
CDO/CNO does that to you, unfortunately. I can't wait to be done with that crap after this month.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Flow/ DGI whatever, I can read just fine. All I see is you feel entitled to having something in writing over someone else because you feel you have some how sacrificed something and need to be rewarded.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I'm not sure if you meant it this way but the definition of entitled and it's common usage now are both derogatory, or negative, in nature. It might help you make your points better if the subject didn't feel attacked by a adjective and pejorative which they do not agree with.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Does this apply to DGS employees or no? I can't see how beneficial this is if it's just excluded to mainline employees compared to the massive amounts of DGS employees. I actually know some higher ups at DGS with the flight time and all their ratings done, and 5+ years.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
Uh, no they didn't.
Which EDVR captains have not been given a chance to interview at Delta? A lot got hired, many didn't. Why try to steamroll future pilots down the line (like pilots not even certified yet)?
The truth is, Im sure Delta (and everyone else) is not concerned about filling their cockpits right now, but in five years down the line. People need a pathway to pay for flight training and I think all major airlines need to think about getting a handle on that now.