VNAV, Descend Via and Embray'ers

Derg said:
I'm not sure who they're building some of those 'descend via' paths for. The 757/767 would do a pretty good job as long as you didn't slip into VNV SPD without recognizing the stark difference between SPD and PTH, the Airbus is "OK" at best.

Flying primarily domestic now, I'd like to choke every controller that modifies the descend via speeds, vectors you off the arrival, puts you back on the lateral course completely out of vertical profile and speed then tells you to comply with the restrictions.

"Unable".
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Oh I can just spend days pratteling on about this subject from a MCP/FMC angle.
 
Polar742 said:
I can't disagree with that.

I'm talking about other functionality. The autothrottles, flight control BIT issues, some MCDU functionality issues and issues with MAUs
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We still have some of those. MCDUs do weird things (does anyone know what QRH 1 (2) TIMEOUT means, and why it happens with regularity?). I still see some BIT issues too, and the biggest issues with the autothrottles really are "if it's not doing what you want, move the damn levers yourself!"
 
bike21 said:
Actually yes, but some streptococcal bacteria decided to hang out in my throat at the end of my last trip so now I can heckle you from the comfort of my couch as I recover :)
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Clean your oxygen masks before and after use.

This public service announcement brought to you by the 100 hour/month club.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
We still have some of those. MCDUs do weird things (does anyone know what QRH 1 (2) TIMEOUT means, and why it happens with regularity?). I still see some BIT issues too, and the biggest issues with the autothrottles really are "if it's not doing what you want, move the damn levers yourself!"
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Probably like the "MINOR ENG FAULT" ECAM upon landing. Que?
 
Derg said:
Not a problem! I welcome the opportunity to discuss what the airplane can and cannot do!
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My standard line is "Well we'll do our best but we're probably unable," which, at least out west is met with "okay, do your best, speed first, and maintain (altitude)."
 
I don't even say elude to "maybe" but I'll use "unable" if it's super close and ask if he wants speed OR altitude.

I think they generally know that once we get pulled off a planned vertical/lateral path with constraints, the length of time we spend on a vector or speed adjustment has a direct correlation with our inability to resume and comply.
 
Derg said:
I don't even say elude to "maybe" but I'll use "unable" if it's super close and ask if he wants speed OR altitude.

I think they generally know that once we get pulled off a planned vertical/lateral path with constraints, the length of time we spend on a vector or speed adjustment has a direct correlation with our inability to resume and comply.
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Altitude pull.
 
bike21 said:
Actually yes, but some streptococcal bacteria decided to hang out in my throat at the end of my last trip so now I can heckle you from the comfort of my couch as I recover :)
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A written report is requested concerning your last sick call etc.

"Well I put the mask on, and then..."
 
Derg said:
I'm not sure who they're building some of those 'descend via' paths for. The 757/767 would do a pretty good job as long as you didn't slip into VNV SPD without recognizing the stark difference between SPD and PTH, the Airbus is "OK" at best.

Flying primarily domestic now, I'd like to choke every controller that modifies the descend via speeds, vectors you off the arrival, puts you back on the lateral course completely out of vertical profile and speed then tells you to comply with the restrictions.

"Unable".
Click to expand...

Looking at you Atlanta center.
 
Soku39 said:
Looking at you Atlanta center.
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SALT LAKE!

Aeeeeeeeeigh!

"turn right! Slow to 210. turn left, best forward speed, we're going to turn you north for spacing, cleared direct (whatever) rejoin the arrival, descend via (whatever) join ILS 16L. Slow to 170, do you have the airport in sight? Clear visual 17"

(decelerating through 130 knots on the ground)

"Airliner 123, turn right, tango, sierra, sierra six, foxtrot 9, hold short 16R at hotel 9"

"over"

"OVER!"

(decelerating through 110 knots)

"OVER! I DID NOT GET YOUR HOLD SHORT OR YOUR READBACK!"

"Airliner 123 RADIO CHECK!"

(90 knots)
 
Derg said:
SALT LAKE!

Aeeeeeeeeigh!

"turn right! Slow to 210. turn left, best forward speed, we're going to turn you north for spacing, cleared direct (whatever) rejoin the arrival, descend via (whatever) join ILS 16L. Slow to 170, do you have the airport in sight? Clear visual 17"

(decelerating through 130 knots on the ground)

"Airliner 123, turn right, tango, sierra, sierra six, foxtrot 9, hold short 16R at hotel 9"

"over"

"OVER!"

(decelerating through 110 knots)

"OVER! I DID NOT GET YOUR HOLD SHORT OR YOUR READBACK!"

"Airliner 123 RADIO CHECK!"

(90 knots)
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"Turn right 070. Airport 2 o'clock 9 miles. Do you have it?"

"In sight."

"Cleared for the visual 16R."

A few minutes later.

"Airline 123, turn right 145 to join final. 170 to LEETZ. You're number 1, contact tower 132.65."

"What the bloody hell?! You cleared us for the visual 5 minutes ago!"
 
Derg said:
I'm not sure who they're building some of those 'descend via' paths for. The 757/767 would do a pretty good job as long as you didn't slip into VNV SPD without recognizing the stark difference between SPD and PTH, the Airbus is "OK" at best.

Flying primarily domestic now, I'd like to choke every controller that modifies the descend via speeds, vectors you off the arrival, puts you back on the lateral course completely out of vertical profile and speed then tells you to comply with the restrictions.

"Unable".
Click to expand...

As a general rule, as long as you're allowed to continue to descend to the original altitude, being pulled off the arrival isn't a big deal as long as you pop it into FPA and keep descending at roughly the same rate you were at before the vector.

Then once you're back on, making a fix a hard altitude and doing a vertical direct gets you right back where you were.

It also tells you how screwed you are, because our box will tell us what the angle is on the vertical direct. You'll know right away if you won't be able to stay on the arrival.
 
B767 said:
"Turn right 070. Airport 2 o'clock 9 miles. Do you have it?"

"In sight."

"Cleared for the visual 16R."

A few minutes later.

"Airline 123, turn right 145 to join final. 170 to LEETZ. You're number 1, contact tower 132.65."

"What the bloody hell?! You cleared us for the visual 5 minutes ago!"
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"Descend and maintain 5,000."

"We're already there, sir."

"Then turn right 090."

"Already on a 090 heading, sir."

"Right...well...call this other controller so I can wash my hands of you."
 
jtrain609 said:
As a general rule, as long as you're allowed to continue to descend to the original altitude, being pulled off the arrival isn't a big deal as long as you pop it into FPA and keep descending at roughly the same rate you were at before the vector.

Then once you're back on, making a fix a hard altitude and doing a vertical direct gets you right back where you were.

It also tells you how screwed you are, because our box will tell us what the angle is on the vertical direct. You'll know right away if you won't be able to stay on the arrival.
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Depending on the circumstances, VNAV off, flight level change is an appropriate way to handle that too.

In the terminal area, on vectors, my FMA is mostly if not ALL green, not magenta. (Yes, I know the hazard re: stepdowns, but I consider an untimely level-off more likely.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Depending on the circumstances, VNAV off, flight level change is an appropriate way to handle that too.

In the terminal area, on vectors, my FMA is mostly if not ALL green, not magenta. (Yes, I know the hazard re: stepdowns, but I consider an untimely level-off more likely.)
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I always tell people if you're not using VNAV then turn it off. What's the point of leaving it magenta? All it will do is capture some random altitude you don't want it to.
 
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