VMC circling restriction on ATP: How to remove?

wheelsup

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
What's everyones thoughts on how to remove the VMC circling restriction on my ATP quickly and inexpensively? IE getting another type rating is out of the question at this point ($$). Do I just need to take another ATP practical w/ an examiner? What sort of manuvers would I do?

Thoughts on approx. cost? Where to do it at? I can travel, but I'd like to do it at a place that has done it before.

thanks
 
Is this an ATP - Circling approach VMC only, or is it for a specific type rating?

If it's the former and you actually go up in an airplane and show an examiner that you can do a circling approach down to minimums, I think that should take care of it.
 
I was always wondering what defines the VMC on these restrictions. Is it the requirements for the airspace you are in (ex: B - 3SM/CC, D - 3/5-1-2) or is it something else? In other words, you break out 100' before MDA on a circling approach so you have the base of the clouds 100' above you and clear below, can you complete that approach or must you go missed?
 
dasleben said:
Is this an ATP - Circling approach VMC only, or is it for a specific type rating?

If it's the former and you actually go up in an airplane and show an examiner that you can do a circling approach down to minimums, I think that should take care of it.
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My ATP is limited because when I took my type ride it was limited to circling approach VMC only.

I guess I need to call some examiners to see what they'll require, then talk to an instructor to get some multi time. I'll probably need a few hours at least in a twin because I haven't flown a piston in 4+ years.
 
wheelsup said:
My ATP is limited because when I took my type ride it was limited to circling approach VMC only.

I guess I need to call some examiners to see what they'll require, then talk to an instructor to get some multi time. I'll probably need a few hours at least in a twin because I haven't flown a piston in 4+ years.
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As the others have said, you have to demonstrate a circling approach to mins to a DPE.
 
There really is no reason to get a CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY restriction removed, unless you want to go overseas, as they are big on not having that restriction.

There are a couple of sim centers that have a circling removal course. I believe there is one in Miami that does it in an A320.
 
Do you have an SIC type? I know every place is different but at my current 121 the SIC type has the restriction but the PIC type removes it.
 
CRJDriver said:
There really is no reason to get a CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY restriction removed, unless you want to go overseas, as they are big on not having that restriction.

There are a couple of sim centers that have a circling removal course. I believe there is one in Miami that does it in an A320.
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That's why I need it removed ;).

My guess is that A320 course is pretty expensive...
 
higney85 said:
Do you have an SIC type? I know every place is different but at my current 121 the SIC type has the restriction but the PIC type removes it.
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No it's a PIC type. Since the type was my ATP ride as well, I have the restriction on my ATP.
 
wheelsup said:
That's why I need it removed ;).

My guess is that A320 course is pretty expensive...
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Gotcha! Don't quote me on this but I think I remember reading that A320 in MIA for the removal course is $500/hr.



So, what if you have an SIC with the restriction, then you go and get your ATP in a twin with a DPE, you go back to an airline, upgrade you'd still get the restriction if it's in the airlines Ops Specs??
 
CRJDriver said:
Gotcha! Don't quote me on this but I think I remember reading that A320 in MIA for the removal course is $500/hr.



So, what if you have an SIC with the restriction, then you go and get your ATP in a twin with a DPE, you go back to an airline, upgrade you'd still get the restriction if it's in the airlines Ops Specs??
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Yeah $500/hr is out of the question :D.

The ATP would not have the restriction but the type would. Mine has the restriction on both.

Here's what it looks like:

4166877076_94ce516c1e_o.jpg
 
subpilot said:
I was always wondering what defines the VMC on these restrictions. Is it the requirements for the airspace you are in (ex: B - 3SM/CC, D - 3/5-1-2) or is it something else? In other words, you break out 100' before MDA on a circling approach so you have the base of the clouds 100' above you and clear below, can you complete that approach or must you go missed?
Click to expand...

For us to do a circling approach our mins are at least 1000 / 3 sm, and the lowest we can do a "circling" approach is 1000' AGL (ie that is our MDA, or actual MDA if higher for Cat D). I actually had to do an ILS circle to the opposite runway not too long ago up in BTV, it was down to right at our minimums (1000' / 3). Kinda exciting!

That's a good question in regards to outside our airline though, I don't know how to answer it. Maybe someone else does.
 
Wheels -

Demonstrating a circling approach in a Seminole wasn't that bad... I recommend you do it that way.
 
MW,

I don't know why all the airlines have gone to this CIRC APPR VMC ONLY junk. Why would they not want us to be trained and typed in that. I mean, our OPS SPECS says we can't do it, that should be enough.

For example, you and I are trained to CAT II mins, yet we aren't allowed to shoot CAT II approaches....per OPS SPECS so why do we do it? I know there are a couple of other things as well I can't remember so why is this any different. Just find the highest circling approach mins at any airport we go to and have us do it and that will be good enough.

Just my two cents.
 
C150J said:
Wheels -

Demonstrating a circling approach in a Seminole wasn't that bad... I recommend you do it that way.
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Does that take the restriction off his type as well as the ATP? I would guess that would leave the restriction on the type as it was not demonstrated in a type ride. I could be wrong on that. Some of these companies don't want any restrictions on the type.
 
granlistillo said:
Does that take the restriction off his type as well as the ATP? I would guess that would leave the restriction on the type as it was not demonstrated in a type ride. I could be wrong on that. Some of these companies don't want any restrictions on the type.
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It only takes it off of the ATP.
 
My last airline transitioned from a full type to a VMC circle only deal, but I made it through prior to the restrictions. Now I have 3 without the restriction and two with.....NBD in my eyes.

Really, it's a safety issue. Do you want to be circling a jet? Sure you CAN do it, but isn't safety the name of the game? Many people on here decry the lack of forethought to safety in this industry, and when management takes the conservative approach, everyone laments in whole.

Many airlines hold this standard, so it's just not AirWis.

If you really want to get it removed (which I'd wait until I needed an unrestricted ATP and get what you need for the job. You just never know, the company that hires you might have that restriction removed during your training process) I'd just ask your company if you can get some sim time, or if you use a contract provider like FSI, see if you can work something out. Then you can just go and demonstrate the circle to a Fed and be done with it.
 
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