SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Skywest pilots don't "accept" anything. They take whatever management tells them they're allowed to have. Just like you do.
Virgin America Pilot Pay Increase
- Thread starter Cherokee_Cruiser
- Start date
Skywest pilots don't "accept" anything. They take whatever management tells them they're allowed to have. Just like you do.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
@ATN_Pilot
@Cherokee_Cruiser is right. 9E ALPA was the biggest joke out there. The reason the contract happened is because we went from the junior varsity, folks like SE and co (900 bidder during time period we were told not to bid 900 with no pay rate) to Mesaba ALPA guys. A lot of people dislike Wychor for the concessions, but it would have been nice to have guys like Nagel and not Suker, who was so ridiculous. I could go on. There were very FEW pre merger 9E ALPA reps worth a crap. Consequently, our little corner of the ALPAverse was a joke.
I remember being sold TA1 by PC in ATL. That punk thought that 10 days off for reserves was acceptable, since negotiating capital shouldn't be spent on reserves (you will be off eventually, says man who hasn't sat it in years).
I remember the union turning down a pay raise for FOs, then making the bonus methodology completely about pay rate. Lol
More recently, reps refuse to help other pre-merger pilots because they aren't original Pinnacle.
It sucks for Mesaba guys about the whole merger, but we definitely benefitted from getting guys who knew what they were doing union-wise.
Our grievance committee sucked. Once Mesaba guys came in, not only did they campaign in the LEC meeting as having a better track-record than their 9E counterparts, they put their money where there mouth was.
Mesaba ALPA safety program is much better than Pinnacle's. we got that.
All the pre-merger 9E ALPA guys managed to do was breed hatred for ALPA the organization.
@Cherokee_Cruiser is right. 9E ALPA was the biggest joke out there. The reason the contract happened is because we went from the junior varsity, folks like SE and co (900 bidder during time period we were told not to bid 900 with no pay rate) to Mesaba ALPA guys. A lot of people dislike Wychor for the concessions, but it would have been nice to have guys like Nagel and not Suker, who was so ridiculous. I could go on. There were very FEW pre merger 9E ALPA reps worth a crap. Consequently, our little corner of the ALPAverse was a joke.
I remember being sold TA1 by PC in ATL. That punk thought that 10 days off for reserves was acceptable, since negotiating capital shouldn't be spent on reserves (you will be off eventually, says man who hasn't sat it in years).
I remember the union turning down a pay raise for FOs, then making the bonus methodology completely about pay rate. Lol
More recently, reps refuse to help other pre-merger pilots because they aren't original Pinnacle.
It sucks for Mesaba guys about the whole merger, but we definitely benefitted from getting guys who knew what they were doing union-wise.
Our grievance committee sucked. Once Mesaba guys came in, not only did they campaign in the LEC meeting as having a better track-record than their 9E counterparts, they put their money where there mouth was.
Mesaba ALPA safety program is much better than Pinnacle's. we got that.
All the pre-merger 9E ALPA guys managed to do was breed hatred for ALPA the organization.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
While I have the utmost respect for guys like Wychor and Nagel, I also worked alongside Scott and Craig, and I know them to be top notch. Your aspersions on them are ridiculous, and calling them "junior varsity" while you have no experience yourself is comical. Scott was processing grievances before you flew your first hour.
Yes. We've been friends since the 80's and was one of my roommates for a summer along with G.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
They sucked man. The Mesaba MEC actually knows what it is doing. Trust me man.
So you don't find it scummy that the union tells us not to bid the 900 and that he does it? Or that the 9E guys including Erickson hated guys like @Seggy so bad that JK tells me during a trip that "he just followed the Mesaba guys around."
You haven't seen how the XJ MEC operates, and to think that 9E even came close is just funny.
Heck, the real union even controlled airline staffing. For some reason, the unionistas at 9E think we should be able to fly down to min days off or less. (And we wonder why negotiations took so long).
We kicked Suker out of DTW, then he became MEC chair... Not scummy???
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
"Accept what they take" is all relative. Delta pilots "accepted" 32.5% paycut and they weren't in BK at the time. 9E pilots "accepted" an industry bottom contract. Both cases were ALPA. Negotiating matters and I agree with that, but please don't pretend like management can't get what they want on you even if you have ALPA. Hey, it was management that stopped you from going to binding arbitration and got you to vote yes on SLI #2 (maybe not you personally but your group). My point is even ALPA carriers "accept" what comes their way. Usually, it's all about writing on the wall with factors out of your control. Delta pilots perceived the post 9/11 world, even though not in BK, their hands were forced and a 32.5% paycut was the best case scenario that they thought enough of it to vote yes. And lets not forget that BK is the easiest way to pretty much toss any CBA right out (1113 filing) or get enough peeing down their pants that they will vote yes to whatever management wants. In the end, you "accept" what they offer.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Just because you're buddies with somebody does not mean they're competent.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I don't need to trust you. I've worked alongside both for years. Your perceptions are simply wrong, and driven by rumors and emotion.
You realize that he wasn't actually flying the airplane, right? He was on full-time union leave and it was all on paper. Besides, I'm not buying that the union specifically told you not to bid the 900. Show me that email.
I never heard Scott or anyone else say a bad word about Seggy. Again, I think you're listening to line rumors a bit too much.
Different MECs have different ways of doing business. I was always more of a fan of Wychor's style than of the PCL MEC's style, but that doesn't mean that they were incompetent.
Why would that be "scummy?"
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Has nothing to do with me being "buddies" with them. Has to do with the fact that I worked alongside them and witnessed their competency.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Management didn't stop us from doing anything. Our own votes did. Until you can understand that unions provide a democratic process, while what you have provides only servitude, there isn't really much that can be discussed.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Then apparently you believe that no union has any power. Because no union has the right to strike on a whim.
Nark
Macho Superpilot
ATN
How is an airline like Skywest in a worse position by not having a union, compared one such as mine, RAH. They have better working conditions in every comparison. They can bring Skywest to their knee's tomorrow if they wanted to, because they aren't tied to the RLA and NMB. (correct me if I'm wrong)
You don't need to dedicate 1.9% of your paycheck to make things happen in life.
I'm not sure if it was in this thread or the other one, but you pointed out the irony of independent organizations compared to that of ALPA; where they represent multitudes of pilots.
I do not understand how an organization can preach solidarity amongst peers, but negotiate to cannibalize junior members? (ie majors getting rid of their regional feed?*)
* Don't mistake that for me advocating for scope relief and regional growth...
How is an airline like Skywest in a worse position by not having a union, compared one such as mine, RAH. They have better working conditions in every comparison. They can bring Skywest to their knee's tomorrow if they wanted to, because they aren't tied to the RLA and NMB. (correct me if I'm wrong)
You don't need to dedicate 1.9% of your paycheck to make things happen in life.
I'm not sure if it was in this thread or the other one, but you pointed out the irony of independent organizations compared to that of ALPA; where they represent multitudes of pilots.
I do not understand how an organization can preach solidarity amongst peers, but negotiate to cannibalize junior members? (ie majors getting rid of their regional feed?*)
* Don't mistake that for me advocating for scope relief and regional growth...
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Because it can change on management's whim. My working conditions can only change if I vote to change them or a bankruptcy judge issues a ruling changing them. Not so at a non-union airline.
Consider yourself corrected.
Whether you have a union or not, anyone in the airline (or railroad) business is governed by the RLA.What managements do has nothing to do with pilot solidarity. Delta management can decide to kill Comair, but it doesn't mean that the Delta pilots killed Comair. Pilots are labor. They don't run airlines.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
He will claim that at RAH you can actually ask (negotiate) for what you want whereas at SkyWest "you cannot." No where does he even hint at the fact that SkyWest has been given one of the best packages in the regional industry, and has the best management for securing flying. Delta's damage to SkyWest was minimal in terms of parking 50 seaters and getting some more 76 seaters. A sharp management team that is very good at what it does, and then it shows in how they treat their pilots. Of all the regional pilots I came across, SkyWest guys by far were the happiest.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Would you like a track history of just how often union airlines have voted in paycuts or BK judges issues rulings to change contracts, versus non-union pilot group paycuts? YOY comparisons, JetBlue, Virgin, and SkyWest have always gotten payraises. JetBlue lost premium pay and their medical insurance skyrocketed (thanks Obama) but their rates have gone up. At JetBlue, if you are just the kinda guy who flies 70 hrs and never wants to credit more than 70-75 hrs, then the premium loss doesn't affect you and the recent payraises is an increase.
And what you are saying only sounds good in saying, not in actual practice. When push comes to shove, if conditions are bad enough that a non-union airline forces paycuts onto pilots, I guarantee you ALPA airlines will get their paycuts through BK (harder now) or through fear tactics getting pilots to voluntarily vote yes (Delta paycuts, Pinnacle, etc).
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You were too busy gunning for ALPA National to see the truth about these people.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
In order to make @Derg happy, I'm going to go against my nature (and what I think is right) and just put you on the ignore list rather than tell you what I really think of you. Hopefully @Derg or one of the other mods will eventually wise up and ban your ass. Until then, at least I don't have to see your trolling.
I stopped listening to him, apart from cohesion to the rules, weeks ago.
When I hear @Cherokee_Cruiser talk, it makes me want to YouTube the "What's the Fox Say" video.