SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Gonzo said:
The PSA deal didn't violate any policy.
Virgin America Pilot Pay Increase
- Thread starter Cherokee_Cruiser
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The PSA deal didn't violate any policy.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
You forgot slats. Engines under the wings and slats make the pilot.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
The PSA deal wasn't concessionary, despite what the rabble rousers (rowsers?) would have you believe. The increase in insurance premiums, while certainly a decrease in benefits, hardly qualify as concessionary in the current environment.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
To be honest I have yet to meet a Delta pilot when I jumpseat who is happy with their payrates. So I guess the same statement still applies. But where did you hear me say that my rates are acceptable? I think they are still lower than industry average and I would have personally been happy with JetBlue A320 rates.
I know. You National ALPA EVPs bank some serious coin from what I hear.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Until you're ready to do something about it, it's just words. And the whole point of debate in this thread is your argument that a second tier of rates is acceptable. So I'd say that you're changing your tune.
Yeah, that's where my money comes from. All $500 pre-tax per month.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
"Do something about it." The word is they said they would crush VAPA by bankrupting them. Do you realize that even with ALPA voted in, it will take 3-5 years to negotiate a contract. So Sun Country is ALPA, what are they "doing about it?" 9E was ALPA, what did they "do about it" from May 2005 to Feb 2011?
My argument from the get-go was that the comparison of first tier legacy rates to LCC second tier rates wasn't a reasonable comparison. Comparing JetBlue to Virgin is reasonable, as is Frontier, Sun Country, Allegiant, AirTran, and Spirit.
Yeah, that's where my money comes from. All $500 pre-tax per month.
Don't forget the full time buyouts and those Outback Steakhouse dinners.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'm sure they would. Independent unions are worthless. Not to mention a contradiction in terms.
Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on what your goals are, what the company's goals are, etc. Regardless, at the end, you would have an actual contract.
Bargaining. What you can't do.
Again, they bargained.
EVPs don't get full time buyouts. I haven't had any flight pay loss at all since last summer, I believe. As for dinner, if you think Outback is fancy, you need to get out more.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
The deal saves the company a good bit of money, where does that money come from? The pilots pockets is where. The company flat out refused to show PSA or Eagle why they needed the cost savings or what numbers they were trying to get in savings. That is one of my biggest problems with both deals. Our MEC is telling us PSA didn't even use ALPA economic and financial analysis and pulled numbers off the internet for the road shows because AAG wouldn't give them any numbers.
upup89
Well-Known Member
Honest question as I am not an expert on the most recent PSA deal but if it is not concessionary then why is AAG coming to other regionals with a very similiar deal?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Because it solves the longevity problem.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Comparing the PSA deal to the rejected CCAir TA is like comparing apples to Volvos.
upup89
Well-Known Member
Makes sense as the whole stopping longevity increases under set conditions should do just that.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
The company was unwilling to link the longevity cuts to the flow.
upup89
Well-Known Member
Oh must of read something wrong?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Why? from you post:
That is what AAG did to PSA and is doing to Eagle.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The PSA deal is not concessionary. Trading dollars for career progression is a valid choice. I may not agree with it, but it's a valid choice, and it isn't inherently concessionary.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Says the guy who left an ALPA carrier to be a NPA pilot?
Please. That's laughable. Be glad you got out in early 2007. They bargained nothing worth anything. They simply played at a game called bargaining. Usually the 9E negotiators were parked by the NMB. It was a joke. Don't use bargaining and 9E in the same sentence, especially given light of the recent losses at 9E. How's that bargaining work out in protecting their JCBA? Cue the "it would have been a lot worse in bankruptcy! Or if they had no union!" Yeah, but keep in mind Delta did not want all 3 of them to combine, nor did they want to pay for US Airways Express guys going to the United Express side (BOS Saab base closing and increasing staffing for EWR Qs). It was ALPA that required them to proceed with a single list procedure. That worked out real well for original 9E guys didn't it?
I've seen Eagle's union meal bills. You ALPA guys like to party. Hard!
Curious, how long til you cross over to the dark side you call SWAPA?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Hahaaa. Laughable, only because PSA was an ALPA carrier and this happened. Had SkyWest pilots accepted a similar proposition for trading dollars for career progression, you'd be all over it calling them non-union worthless punks.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
He said he doesn't agree with it but that it was a viable option. What part of that means he was in favor of it? He wasn't a fan of the SLI with SWA. He said he didn't like how it went down but he understood why his coworkers voted for it. You take stretching an argument to a whole new level sometimes.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Yes. Thank you for pointing out why I have credibility on this subject. I'm one of the few people with experience not just as a member of both, but as a representative of both.
Please. That's laughable. Be glad you got out in early 2007. They bargained nothing worth anything. They simply played at a game called bargaining. Usually the 9E negotiators were parked by the NMB. It was a joke. Don't use bargaining and 9E in the same sentence, especially given light of the recent losses at 9E. How's that bargaining work out in protecting their JCBA? Cue the "it would have been a lot worse in bankruptcy! Or if they had no union!" Yeah, but keep in mind Delta did not want all 3 of them to combine, nor did they want to pay for US Airways Express guys going to the United Express side (BOS Saab base closing and increasing staffing for EWR Qs). It was ALPA that required them to proceed with a single list procedure. That worked out real well for original 9E guys didn't it?
Not getting into this discussion again. It's like explaining long division to a flea.
Then you must have missed the part where they were required to pay back what they spent.
Never. Pretty sure I've answered that question for you repeatedly.