Violated!

I was always taught on the charts that the wildlife areas(dots on the chart) that AREN'T boxed in, you can't be fined for flying low over. However, the ones that are(which sadly it is in your case), are subject to state action(not FAA). Am I wrong?
 
Don't call the guy, don't admit to anything. You didn't do anything wrong, that is on your side. The onus is on him to prove you did something wrong, that is also on your side. If you call or say anything to him, you give him rope which could potentially hang you. Don't call. Don't admit anything. Let them find you and prove what they can prove if they're motivated enough to do so.
 
As long as your chief pilot is cool with it, I wouldn't do anything. Don't have the school, chief pilot, or yourself call back. Tell the receptionists not to give out personal information about anyone (a good policy regardless of law enforcement action) and chances are it will all blow over.

I can't think of any scenario where talking to this officer would help you, but there are a whole lot of possibilities for how it could end badly.

If you decide for some reason that you really want to call this officer, I would say, "Hi, I'm the pilot of N12345, I understand you wanted to talk to me about something?" Notice you're not giving your name or any hint that you were flying over the area in question.

From that point on, let the officer do *all* of the talking. All of your responses should be along the lines of, "Ok, thanks for the information." Don't confirm anything, don't agree to anything, don't do anything other than smile and nod. If the officer presses you to actually discuss anything, say, "It sounds like this could be a serious situation and I'd prefer to speak to my attorney before going any further. I hope you understand."

Good luck.
 
I'm not sure if you've made the phone call or not, but please please please do not call this park ranger. Do not admit anything to an LEO, ever; they're very serious when they say "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." You better believe the ranger will be sitting there writing down everything you say during the phone call, and it's all admissible in court. Treat this just like you would if you ever get pulled over for speeding:

Officer: "Do you know how fast you were going?"
You: "No, sir." (The ONLY correct answer!)

Watch the video posted on page 1. Don't admit a thing; if you do, you might as well just write the State a check right now.

Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney. ;)
 
It sounds like it comes down to how can he prove how low you were? He'd have to subpoena the TRACON for radar data, figure out which one was you... then prove it actually was with a photo or some evidence, right? Good luck to him.

I wouldn't call, but I don't have the boatload of experience that others around here do. If he wants to chase this, make him work and find you... don't give him ammo for free.
 
I am paranoid and would never call call him back. If they want to prosecute you for anything, they will have to do some legwork. There is nothing worse than you calling and incriminating yourself.
 
The only way I see them having the evidence to prosecute your for this is if you call them up and admit guilt. You have absolutely no reason to do such a thing and I doubt that the overtaxed justice system is really going to be putting all that much effort into this.

A prosecutor has a stack of cases he sees everyday. If he gets a slam dunk like you admitting guilt to this, he is probably likely to proceed. Its easy revenue. If he sees a park ranger's statement and no other hard facts, he may not.

Let us know what you do.
 
Hacker15e said:
Perhaps it is thou who should read the chart before making a statement like this.

You are wrong, regardless of typo in your post.

It pretty clearly says "Pilots are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2000' AGL..." [emphasis added by me].

The "law" in the discussion here is a California State statute that has no reference on the chart.
Click to expand...

Butt has this thing about the law...
 
For the OP. Please do not respond in public.

This happened what a week prior to the call? Are you sure you are even the guy that made him mad? I mean did he call and say WTF was flying N12AB at 3 PM on the XX of November?

1) Best advice, I've heard is the AOPA legal plan. I would make sure that it would cover you if the event happened before you enrolled but before you were violated, cited whatever. Also does it cover you for local jurisdiction other than FAA violations. If you are that worried get an aviation lawyer before doing anything. I am not sure I would do an ASRS report without the lawyer's approval. As I understand it is is deidentified and keeps the FAA from taking certificate action, but I am not sure it is a carte blanche to break any other laws.
2) Don't call him, especially if you are not sure it was you. Might have been someone buzzing Geese 10' off the deck.
3) If I felt compelled to talk to him, I wouldn't admit guilt, but I sure wouldn't lip off.

Hope it works out for you.
 
in order to prove an altitude violation you would need some evidence. The only think I could think of that would be anything other than the park rangers GUESS, or your admittance of your altitude would be to subpoena ATC for radar data. The next question is how long does ATC keep that data?

By the time this guy figures out how to do all this stuff, it will probably be to late.

I wouldn't call, if the guy really wanted to just ask you to please not fly so low, he could have, and should have simply told the boss, and let them handle it. it sounds like something all the pilots should know about anyway.

If a cop pulled you over and said Hey I think I seen you speeding yesterday, would you say oh yeah that was me...I think not.

I like the video Michael posted...SAY NOTHING!
 
Called the guy. The phone call went well. I told him that I did about 3 hours of research on the web last night, and found a CA code that told me not to do it. I also told him that before I went out there, I looked at the website for the islands, and there was no mention of not flying around the islands. He was actually really cool about it. I asked him "what are the repercussions?" He told me, it's your first offense, so spread the word that people shouldn't be out there flying low. He knows about the FAA's request not to fly low. He also has tried to get the charting office to post that your not supposed to be out there with the '3000 foot law, but they won't help him.

So, things went well. He was a nice guy, and I think I'll chalk this one up to a lesson learned. Oh, and he was glad that I had the balls to call him up myself, and talk to him about it. Mabey he's one of those few rangers that actually has respect for those who respect him.
 
granlistillo said:
For the OP. Please do not respond in public.

This happened what a week prior to the call? Are you sure you are even the guy that made him mad? I mean did he call and say WTF was flying N12AB at 3 PM on the XX of November?
Click to expand...


He called and asked "Who was flying 80*** at around 1:40 PM on Dec. *. So yeah, he knew who it was (or atleast what plane it was). He also said the ranger that saw it had pictures. They had me by the balls. Had I not called, I probably would have been WAY MORE BUSTED! Integrity goes a long way in most cases. Thankfully, it worked here.
 
butt said:
The chart says 200 feet. If you were below that, you deserve what ever you get. Next time read the rules.
Click to expand...


Eat your own words dude, and mabey you should do some studying. It says '2000. And it's not a rule, it's a recomendation. I broke no FAA reg. I broke a state reg. Mabey you should think before you speak. You just made yourself look preaty.........
 
Great news. Could have been much, much, worse. Guess I won't be doing any scenic flights with friends over in that neighborhood. :p
 
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