Victor Airways above FL180

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
Victor airways are from 1,200 agl to but not including FL180 right? So can you LEGALLY accept a clearance above FL180 that includes Victor Airway navigation? I recently declined a clearance to navigate via v airways @ FL240. ATC assures me it was allowed, but none the less I didnt accept. How is it allowed? Can ATC just decide to redesign the NSA, because the way I understand it, victor airways do not axist above FL180???

Thx
 
I believe the proper clearance is something like cleared to fly the radials that define victer...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
 
Victor airways are from 1,200 agl to but not including FL180 right? So can you LEGALLY accept a clearance above FL180 that includes Victor Airway navigation? I recently declined a clearance to navigate via v airways @ FL240. ATC assures me it was allowed, but none the less I didnt accept. How is it allowed? Can ATC just decide to redesign the NSA, because the way I understand it, victor airways do not axist above FL180???

Thx

Were you descending?
 
One of the previous posts touched on this, but maybe I can add a bit more..... You may get a clearance to fly victor airways, while operating in the flight levels. The controller will say something like "cleared radials of VictorXYZ" or fly radials of "VictorXYZ"

While this isn't something you will get very often;.......... if you fly at or above FL180 chances are you will eventually get this a some point. The controller clearing you via "radials of a victor airway" is your cue that they are acknowledging they are giving you a low altitude airway while operating in the flight levels. Hope this helps!
 
This is an interesting question. Do you only file jet routes all the way to destination even though you will obviously be descending at some point prior to your destination? I had not thought of it before, but we correct bad routing on aircraft in the flight levels all the time, and issue victor airways in the process. When we issue the clearance, the aircraft is usually in rvsm airspace, but by the time they get to the portion of the route with the victor airway, they will be at 7000.
 
I used to get a Victor airways clearance at 180 or 200 over the Rockies all the time. Eventually that clearance changed to direct destination after the last fix in the departure.
 
This is an interesting question. Do you only file jet routes all the way to destination even though you will obviously be descending at some point prior to your destination? I had not thought of it before, but we correct bad routing on aircraft in the flight levels all the time, and issue victor airways in the process. When we issue the clearance, the aircraft is usually in rvsm airspace, but by the time they get to the portion of the route with the victor airway, they will be at 7000.

I see no issue with issuing a clearance consisting of V an J aircraft, so as long as you will be flying the V airways below 180.
 
Depends on what the ATC playbook is that day. I fly in the FLs and often.preferred routes include Victor Airways. It's legal when ATC doesn't mind the route.
 
It's legal when ATC doesn't mind? Okay, so if ATC doesn't mind if I do 320 knots below 10 in a class D, does that make it legal?
 
I disagree. Please reference the reg that makes you believe you would not be in violation of 91.117(a). And i'm talking about ATC telling you to maintain 320 knots at 7,000 feet. You are not an emergency and not flying a 747 or t-38.

FAA JO 7110.65, aka ATC Bible - 5-7-2 (Note 1)

NOTE−

1. A pilot operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL on an assigned speed adjustment greater than 250 knots is expected to comply with 14 CFR Section 91.117(a) when cleared below 10,000 feet MSL, within domestic airspace, without notifying ATC. Pilots are expected to comply with the other provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.117 without notification.

ATC is not the administrator and it is the pilot(s) responsibility to not accept a clearance that would be in violation of the FAR's.
 
I disagree. Please reference the reg that makes you believe you would not be in violation of 91.117(a). And i'm talking about ATC telling you to maintain 320 knots at 7,000 feet. You are not an emergency and not flying a 747 or t-38.

FAA JO 7110.65, aka ATC Bible - 5-7-2 (Note 1)

NOTE−

1. A pilot operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL on an assigned speed adjustment greater than 250 knots is expected to comply with 14 CFR Section 91.117(a) when cleared below 10,000 feet MSL, within domestic airspace, without notifying ATC. Pilots are expected to comply with the other provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.117 without notification.

ATC is not the administrator and it is the pilot(s) responsibility to not accept a clearance that would be in violation of the FAR's.
I'm joking.

Reference my rants about people just "shrugging their shoulders/whatta ya gonna do"
 
We have a few routes that include V airways and a final altitude in the low flight levels. In fact, I'm going to fly one today.
Code:
NYL..ARGUS3.ARGUS.V458.JLI.VISTA2.KLAX
This little gem in the AIM might explain it, though:
1. The VOR and L/MF (nondirectional radio beacons) Airway System consists of airways designated from 1,200 feet above the surface (or in some instances higher) up to but not including 18,000 feet MSL. These airways are depicted on IFR Enroute Low Altitude Charts.

NOTE-
The altitude limits of a victor airway should not be exceeded except to effect transition within or between route structures.
See 5-3-4(a)(1).

Edit: For at least some of its length, V458 underlies J2; this flight is usually given direct Julian at some point along its route, making it a random RNAV route over FL180.
 
Last edited:
I am a Dispatcher and we had this same conversation at work. I looked this up in the AIM and it said Victor Airways may be part of a route that transitions to or from The jet routes....meaning you can be climbing or descending above 18000 feet and still be on a victor airway. Since all the fixes are defined...along with the low altitude sectors of a center usually owning up to FL240...there is no issue here at all. The only time it would be an issue is if you were filed on a Jet route or Q route below FL180....which you can't do...and thus you must be filed on Victor or Tango (low altitude Q routes now popping up) airways for the whole flight if below 18000 feet.
 
once had a problem with a Continental pilot back in the day landing MKE, the routeing was J70.PMM.V170.BRAVE..MKE with a decent to FL240 at PMM and a crossing of 10000 at BRAVE. he said in a very nasty tone he would not fly V170 above FL180, i said OK......... he wasnt very happy with me after i got done with him but he was below FL180 before PMM.
 
Wait until you fly over here in Europe (especially Eastern Europe), if you get the chance. NDB's are part of the routes. It must have been sporty back in the day before all of the "magical magenta lines". You also have 2 NDB approaches to nearly the same minimums as ILS's.
 
Talk about bringing back an old thread, but this came up in basic Indoc. What about HAWAII where there are no jet routes? It's pretty obvious guys are flying victor airways in the flight levels.
 
Back
Top