VFR flight plans

I've filed one VFR flight plan. On that one time I forgot to close my flight plan so when I called up flight service for my return flight (about an hour after I had landed) I got told that I didn't close my flight plan. It sucked, bad. I'm never going to use a VFR flight plan ever again. Now I file IFR almost everywhere I go so it works itself out.
 
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I've filed one VFR flight plan. On that one time I forgot to close my flight plan so when I called up flight service for my return flight (about an hour after I had landed) I got told that I didn't close my flight plan. It sucked, bad. I'm never going to use a VFR flight plan ever again. Now I file IFR almost everywhere I go so it works itself out.

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See that is my point (and many others too). As pilots, we hate being chewed out for stuff like that. So after an hour, they hadn't done sh*t about you not closing it. What good is that?

Lets say you file a flight plan with a time enroute of 4 hours and you get lost in hour 1. It will take at least two hours for FSS to get off their butt and do something. So we are looking at a minimum of 5 hours of you being stranded before anything is iniated. Just think if you landed in a lake, or it was -30 F with blowing snow. By the time they even start looking, it might be too late.

The best thing you can do is plan for this and make sure to have survival gear. And before you leave, tell someone at the FBO what your plans our along with telling your family and who you are going to see. You'll be much better off this way.
 
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I think I've flown a VFR flight plan twice ever.

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Real professional CFI you had there, you should ask for a refund.

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I don't know . . . I tell my students that it's pretty pointless as well. I teach that I'd rather them get flight following throughout the flight than file a VFR flight plan. It just provides more protection.
 
I tell students to get flight following on all cross country flights. In addition, I go through the file, open, close process of flight plans with them during the dual cross countries. Brief them on takeoff, open flight plan, call for flight following, then make sure to close then plan at the destination. You can't make someone do something when they go out on their own, be it solo, or after licensed. But, you can at least teach the stuff, and make it easy, so they may still use the processes in place to be as safe as possible.
 
I can understand that some pilots feel it is pointless because it seems that they don't do anything but chew you out if you don't close it. I have a friend in the CAP who told me that they actually do take it pretty seriously. The first round of SAR begins 30 min after. Basically all they do at this point is make some phone calls. Its not hard to call the destination and see if the plane is on the ramp, so while it may seem to us that when we forget to close the FP the FSS dosn't do anything but wait for us to call so they can yell at us, in reality they probably did call someone to confirm we landed somewhere. Its like when we were in high school and our parents were worried sick when we weren't home by curfew, but after making some phone calls found out that we decided to go to the movies or something. They would wait up for us and let us have it when we got home. Now, if the FSS can't locate the aircraft by calling anyone, then they send out the SAR teams, but this usually means there really is a problem. I think another reason they love to chew us out so much is because they deal with pilots not closing FPs day in and day out and I'm sure it gets very old, very quickly to take the time to locate the aircraft. That being said, I think flight following will usually suffice, assuming you will be in radar contact through the whole flight. I rarely use VFR FPs myself but I wouldn't say they are pointless. Especially for pre-private students on solo XCs. When I'm an instructor I will ask my students to use them.
 
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I think I've flown a VFR flight plan twice ever.

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Real professional CFI you had there, you should ask for a refund.

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I never use them unles I am going to the Bahamas and an int'l flt plan is required.

ATC won't deal with them, so you have to leave the frequency to open and close.

Aloft you're a CAP guy. How many false alarms come from people forgetting to close their VFR flight plans? Quite a few.

It's one of those things you learn for your checkride and then you dump. This is a sign that this particular part of aviation needs to be revamped.

If we can find some way to have VFR flight plans automatically transmitted to ATC for flight following, they will have value again.
 
I think the biggest problem that I have with VFR flight plans is that the entire process is not user friendly.

It would be MUCH better and user friendly if, for example, you could just call up ATC and when you ask for flight following they would activate your VFR flight plan at the same time. Better still if ATC could access that flight plan to get your destination, type of aircraft, altitude, etc. and not have to ask you for it. Or when you ask for flight following they push a VFR flight plan into the system (like filing IFR in the air).

Another alternative would be if you could call Clearance Delivery (I fly out of a satellite airport in the Dallas Class B) and they could activate it before you take off.

That said, I have been psuedo denied FF before, it was rush hour in Bravo and the controller basically said "VFR calling standby". He never got a moments rest and I never heard from him again. I just picked it up with Center once out from under Bravo.

Jeremy
 
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I think I've flown a VFR flight plan twice ever.

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Real professional CFI you had there, you should ask for a refund.

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Yeah, Aloft, you're right.
 
Seems everybody is crapping on VFR flightplans. While VFR flight following is best and VFR flightplans pretty limited in their usefulness, but I think the system can work just fine, especially for VFR mountain flying.

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I've filed one VFR flight plan. On that one time I forgot to close my flight plan so when I called up flight service for my return flight (about an hour after I had landed) I got told that I didn't close my flight plan. It sucked, bad. I'm never going to use a VFR flight plan ever again. Now I file IFR almost everywhere I go so it works itself out.

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See that is my point (and many others too). As pilots, we hate being chewed out for stuff like that. So after an hour, they hadn't done sh*t about you not closing it. What good is that?

Lets say you file a flight plan with a time enroute of 4 hours and you get lost in hour 1. It will take at least two hours for FSS to get off their butt and do something. So we are looking at a minimum of 5 hours of you being stranded before anything is iniated. Just think if you landed in a lake, or it was -30 F with blowing snow. By the time they even start looking, it might be too late.

The best thing you can do is plan for this and make sure to have survival gear. And before you leave, tell someone at the FBO what your plans our along with telling your family and who you are going to see. You'll be much better off this way.

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Now, I gotta something about all this. First, a 30 minute overdue time is standard for FSS to start calling around to locate you. Then, things shift into SAR mode if nobody has seen you. Seems like a good system to me. This guy never said that FSS didn't do anything after 30 minutes - he just happened to talk to them an hour later. More than likely, FSS called the airport after 30' and they talked to the FBO/manager who verified that the plane was safe and sound on the ground.

Second, if it "sucked bad" and if "we hate being chewed out for stuff like that," then you should have remembered to close the flightplan! If you forgot your assigned altitude and you bust an ATC clearance, you will get chewed out. If you forgot your license and you get ramp-checked, you will get chewed out. Forgetting something doesn't mean the system is broken (well, not usually).

Finally, some people mentioned leaving an itinerary with an FBO. If your FBO is a busy flight-training school that tracks its planes and schedules carefully all day long, then they may be able to perform this dispatch/flight following function. But really, I don't know of any FBO that would take the responsibility to watch the clock all day long, wait to hear from you at a certain time, then make a bunch of phone calls to try and track you down, then call FSS/ATC to declare a problem. They're probably gonna be too busy fueling planes, picking up catering, running around doing line service, etc. etc. This system is in place in the form of the VFR flightplan, and it works if it is used.

The best thing is survival gear? Agreed, survival gear is critical when flying over certain terrain. But survival gear won't dispatch SAR assets to start locating you soon, and that is absolutely critical too.
 
My prior comment had nothing to do with my opinion on the real-world practicality of VFR flight plans. In a training situation, however, students should be filing a flight plan for each and every cross-country flight. Why? Because you're in training. Do what you like once you've got your ticket, but while in training, everything should be done by the book, if for no other reason than for the sake of practice--and that means a weight & balance done for every flight, a wx briefing, and if going cross-country, filing a flight plan.

Yes, having a CAP background does color my views here a bit, but the truth is, failing to close a flight plan will mobilize SAR resources MUCH sooner than if a concerned family member or friend calls to report you overdue. Yes, flight following is a much better method of "insurance", but it's not always available, especially in busy areas like the one I learned to fly in (SoCal).
 
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My prior comment had nothing to do with my opinion on the real-world practicality of VFR flight plans. In a training situation, however, students should be filing a flight plan for each and every cross-country flight. Why? Because you're in training. Do what you like once you've got your ticket, but while in training, everything should be done by the book, if for no other reason than for the sake of practice--and that means a weight & balance done for every flight, a wx briefing, and if going cross-country, filing a flight plan.

Yes, having a CAP background does color my views here a bit, but the truth is, failing to close a flight plan will mobilize SAR resources MUCH sooner than if a concerned family member or friend calls to report you overdue. Yes, flight following is a much better method of "insurance", but it's not always available, especially in busy areas like the one I learned to fly in (SoCal).

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What you said is a true story. It definitely should be taught, as it is part of the PTS and required for the check ride.

I would sure like to see it made more practical though.

Also - just because you file a flight plan does not necessarily mean you'll have to open it. The SAR folks will still be able to access your plan, although not as quickly.
 
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My prior comment had nothing to do with my opinion on the real-world practicality of VFR flight plans. In a training situation, however, students should be filing a flight plan for each and every cross-country flight. Why? Because you're in training. Do what you like once you've got your ticket, but while in training, everything should be done by the book, if for no other reason than for the sake of practice--and that means a weight & balance done for every flight, a wx briefing, and if going cross-country, filing a flight plan.


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My CFI did this with me for every one of my solo cross countries. I think we filed on a couple of dual XCs, too. If you're going to get your IR, it gets you in the pre-flight habit, too. Also, my CFI showed me a unique way to remind myself to close the flight plan. I wear my watch on my RIGHT wrist (it's normally on the left), and it bugs the crap out of me the whole time......
 
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Also, my CFI showed me a unique way to remind myself to close the flight plan. I wear my watch on my RIGHT wrist (it's normally on the left), and it bugs the crap out of me the whole time......

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My unique way to remind myself to close the flight plan:

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We've got "close flight plan" on our engine shutdown checklists. The problem is once you memorize the procedure and get complacent, you never read the damn thing.
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Actually come to think of it, the one time I forgot to close my FP, I did read it on the checklist, but couldn't reach FSS on the radio on the ground and figured I'd close it once I got to a phone. The phone was a long walk from the ramp and by the time I got there I forgot and went straight to the restaraunt.
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The watch trick probably would have worked.
 
I think the reason a lot of people dog the VFR plan is because they CAN do flight following. It really becomes important to file a plan when you are in a less populated area and there is no flight following available. I want someone to know where I was when I am flying over the great lakes or in the middle of nowhere. The more insurance, the better. It may be a pain, but it can be well worth it.
 
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It really becomes important to file a plan when you are in a less populated area and there is no flight following available.

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Where??
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It really becomes important to file a plan when you are in a less populated area and there is no flight following available.

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Where??
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Mountains, where radar and comm ain't so good. I'm not talking about cruising high above the mountains, but when you're down a little lower near the terrain.

Mountains in Tennessee/Kentucky don't count - those are hills!!
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Lots of places in northern Michigan without radar coverage down low. Often have trouble picking up Minneapolis Center down at those altitudes also.
 
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It really becomes important to file a plan when you are in a less populated area and there is no flight following available.

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Where??
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Mountains, where radar and comm ain't so good. I'm not talking about cruising high above the mountains, but when you're down a little lower near the terrain.


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You know, if you're down so low that radar and communications suck, you're probably below the Minimum Safe Altitude in your region.

Just something to think about . . .
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Mountains in Tennessee/Kentucky don't count - those are hills!!
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Believe me - I'm a west-coaster. I agree with you!!
 
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