Using Airborne Wx Radar: Practical use books/articles?

[killbilly]

Do any of you more seasoned blokes have some recommended reading on using your typical airline radar effectively?

We've got some stuff in our ASM that's okay, and a couple of CBTs which cover the really rudimentary aspects, and I've got my head wrapped around the basics, but I'd like a little more practical application/depth to it.

Yesterday we were dodging some minor convective stuff around the DFW area en-route to IAH. CA and I were working together using the radar and the Mk1 eyeball to chart a safe path (which was kind of fun, honestly - I like weather flying and I guess I' m weird for it) but I was realizing how much I DON'T know beyond what I DO. Looking to learn more.

 

[roundout]

What are you flying? Every radar set has its quirks. And none of them (that I know of) can defy the laws of physics.

 

[Lawman]

I gotta look through some CD courseware, but somewhere I’ve got a whole class on interpreting the radar indications and the dangerous examples of misidentifying signals because the rain fall blocks the nasty stuff behind it.


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[CoffeeIcePapers]

 

[bimmerphile]

Archie Trammell

https://www.theairlinepilots.com/forumarchive/aviation-weather/wx-radar-antenna-tilt.pdf

 

[killbilly]

What are you flying? Every radar set has its quirks. And none of them (that I know of) can defy the laws of physics.

EMB-145

 

[BobDDuck]

EMB-145

What you see on screen is a function of dish size and power, software installed, and conditions ahead. Because of that, there isn't a whole lot of standardized "how to" books for weather radar. The Archie Trammell stuff is good for an overview, but it really won't help you much with what you are specifically looking at in the 145. Best source of knowledge is your captains, although with movement in the industry right now, many of them probably haven't really had time to learn the works of the system yet.

 

[killbilly]

I gotta look through some CD courseware, but somewhere I’ve got a whole class on interpreting the radar indications and the dangerous examples of misidentifying signals because the rain fall blocks the nasty stuff behind it.


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Yeah, they gave us some decent basics on how to interpret the rain shadows and stuff, and I've found cross-referencing what I could see outside with what the returns were helped a lot, but when the other pilot and I run two different tilts and ranges to get a bigger picture, I start wondering how best to integrate the returns into a cohesive whole. Also understanding the plusses and minuses around gain.

It's a tool I don't know that well and would like to know better.

 

[Kingairer]

145 radar is particularly poor radar with a very small dish. Respect returns

 

[Baronman]

Did over 8 years in the 145….it isn’t the best radar out there but it does the job. Unfortunately most 145s probably don’t have Wi-Fi which helps getting a bigger look ( using WSI).

Inside of 50 miles I found it becomes adequate. Get familiar with tilting up and down. Start down, tilt up..if things are still paining with the bottom of the beam at your FL it’s definitely big enough to want to go around… but in general especially at night it can’t hurt to have the beam pretty low tilt to be sure you’re not scanning over something.

Sometimes you’d get all green or yellow on the screen, try lowering the gain…see what remains and avoid.

 

[Acrofox]

I can give lots and lots of practical tips for the (rather meh) 175 radar, but I'm pretty sure it's a different application than the 145.

 

[///AMG]

I cant give you tips on wx radars.......I’ve been told ours (in the 73) is good, have no idea if that is true or not.

But I mean you basically have what, an Auto mode and then manual control with like a couple things you can adjust? In the scheme of airborne radars (regardless of purpose), these are Tonka truck levels of complexity. I don’t think I’d waste too much time on it. They’re built to be turned on and used by folks with no experience working radars, or understanding of the fundamentals of radar theory. If you are really interested, I’d have a look at https://www.amazon.com/Principles-...ocphy=9033291&hvtargid=pla-490500875275&psc=1

I’ve had some edition of this book on my shelf for years. I believe there is a section devoted to wx radars, but I’m not home right now so i cant confirm that. It’s a pretty good primer at the unclassified level

 

[killbilly]

I can give lots and lots of practical tips for the (rather meh) 175 radar, but I'm pretty sure it's a different application than the 145.

Heh. Everything is better on the 175. It’s the plane the 145 wants to be when it grows up.


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[Roger Roger]

 

[Baronman]

Heh. Everything is better on the 175. It’s the plane the 145 wants to be when it grows up.


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145 builds character. Better to learn on..... Having jumpseated on 190s (i imagine it has the same radar as the 170) it does indeed seem a bit better than the 145's (probably a larger dish). But still not as good as the radars on the bus, which also happen to come in many flavors and don't really need to be messed with or take the nuance of the 145 radar.

 

[zmiller4]

As weird as it is to watch a couple of videos and be told “you’ll learn it on the line”, that’s probably pretty true.

I had a really good article on radar usage in business jets that was totally relevant to CRJ’s/ERJ’s as their antenna size is significantly smaller than a real airliner and should be used/interpreted differently.

I’d suggest playing around with the ERJ’s radar as much as possible, especially when you’re deviating around stuff that you know has tops of XX…you can see what the storm looks like at different tilts, maybe gains etc.

 

[ahw01]

145 builds character. Better to learn on..... Having jumpseated on 190s (i imagine it has the same radar as the 170) it does indeed seem a bit better than the 145's (probably a larger dish). But still not as good as the radars on the bus, which also happen to come in many flavors and don't really need to be messed with or take the nuance of the 145 radar.

Do they still have curtains?

 

[roundout]

What you see on screen is a function of dish size and power, software installed, and conditions ahead. Because of that, there isn't a whole lot of standardized "how to" books for weather radar. The Archie Trammell stuff is good for an overview, but it really won't help you much with what you are specifically looking at in the 145. Best source of knowledge is your captains, although with movement in the industry right now, many of them probably haven't really had time to learn the works of the system yet.

This is fine

i kid, but I have spent a lot of time talking to folks and listening about COVID brain drain stuff both in our industry and others and it’s fascinating if not terrifying.

 

[killbilly]

Did over 8 years in the 145….it isn’t the best radar out there but it does the job. Unfortunately most 145s probably don’t have Wi-Fi which helps getting a bigger look ( using WSI).

Inside of 50 miles I found it becomes adequate. Get familiar with tilting up and down. Start down, tilt up..if things are still paining with the bottom of the beam at your FL it’s definitely big enough to want to go around… but in general especially at night it can’t hurt to have the beam pretty low tilt to be sure you’re not scanning over something.

Sometimes you’d get all green or yellow on the screen, try lowering the gain…see what remains and avoid.

They do provide us a chart in the ASM that says use x-degrees of tilt at y-altitude for z-range, and that seems to be the basic rule of thumb. I know "green ok, yellow meh, red bad," I just wondered if there was any reading to support the tribal knowledge in "when you've got the gain set like THIS, and the CA has it at 50mi and you're at 100mi, here's the things to look for"

But I'm probably overthinking it. I usually am.

 

[roundout]

EMB-145

This is a tough radar set. I don’t remember any nuances of using it but it’s a tiny dish in a pointy nose and it’s not great.