USAPA

scflyin

scflyin

New Member
So as I have been wondering aimlessly through the USAirways training facility in CLT I have noticed a lot of guys wearing USAPA lanyards. I struck up a conversation with a gentleman about them to see what it was all about. Being a nooby to the airlines again I was curious as to what it was all about. He gave me the low down as to why these guys were wearing them. Is this a mainline west coast versus east coast thing? I'm not trying to start a big argument here, just a little curious. Seems like some people out there are not to happy with ALPA. Any thoughts or comments?
 
You are going to get a lot of pro ALPA talk from a bunch of people here. Some of it certainly is correct. Some of it not so much so.

Basically, the rank and file of Airways has been pretty ticked off with their MEC and LECs for a while now. The senior guys pretty much ran the place. People would say, the easiest thing to do would be just to recall everybody that was causing problems, but due in part to how the system was set up, and in part to the apathy on the part of a lot of US pilots, that just hasn't happened.

So then the merger rolled around and the AAA MEC told their pilots that they were going to get date of hire and nothing else. And then even AFTER the arbitrator told them that they WOULDN'T get DOH the MEC STILL told their pilots that they would get DOH for them. Well, that didn't happen and the Nic Award was handed down. Fair or not (I certainly don't think it is) it's what ALPA, legally was going to have to use. (A quick side note... you NOW see ALPA starting to rethink merger/frag policy as all these other groups realize they could get screwed.)

Anyhow, those that were unhappy with US ALPA thought this would be the perfect catalyst to empower some change in the representative structure at AAA. Could they do it simply by recalling everybody and sticking with ALPA? Sure, but they'd never get enough people to go for, so instead they decided to just dump ALPA all together. At first ALPA sort of laughed it off and said it would never happen, but now that they actually got the required signatures to force a vote ALPA is running scared trying to keep them. Sort of. They are also throwing out a lot of FUD that is scaring off a bunch of people that probably would be willing to keep ALPA around. Short sighted if you ask me.

I like a lot of the ideas that USAPA has. *IF* they hold up to what they say they are going to do, it will be a heck of a lot better representation that a lot of these pilots had before.

As far as it hurting ALPA? I don't know how much it's going to really do. AAA paid a lot of money to them, and that certainly is going to hurt if/when they lose that. In theory it could start a cascade of pilot groups wanting to leave, but I don't see that happening.

We'll see I guess.

How long are you down in Charlotte for? I get in on Monday and get to spend almost two full weeks in the wonderful training hotel.
 
Unless your Airways mainline- your opinion doesn't matter.

(that was pointed towards the USAPA naysayers)
 
BobDDuck said:
I like a lot of the ideas that USAPA has. *IF* they hold up to what they say they are going to do, it will be a heck of a lot better representation that a lot of these pilots had before.
Click to expand...


Unless they wind up voting the same people in that were in charge of the ALPA MEC. Then it'll be same &#^#, different union.
 
Bob, I live in charlotte. I am about 10 minutes away from the training center. I'll be around until the 28th of march. Then it's off to St. Louis for sim training.
 
Yeah, I have seen a bunch of those yellow lanyards running around the training center also. Where do you guys stay Bob?
 
SmoothLanderJ said:
Answer from PCL_128...in 3....2......1.............
Click to expand...

Ah, you know me well. :D

scflyin, take everything you hear from the uSAPa supporters with a huge grain of salt. These guys are angry about how their seniority integration went, and they're trying to make a scapegoat out of the national union. As Velocipede said, a win by uSAPa will mean the destruction of USAirways. uSAPa is meant for nothing but screwing over the West pilots so the East pilots can reap a huge windfall. Because of that, the West pilots will refuse to join the new union, and they comprise 40% of the pilot group. You can't survive as a union when 40% of the group refuses to join and pay dues. Besides that, the lawsuits will be never ending. uSAPa will be bankrupt in short order, the USAirways pilots, both East and West, will be without any representation, and the company will collapse from the infighting.

Wear your ALPA lanyard proudly, and to hell with the selfish uSAPa supporters.
 
PCL is exactly right. Whichever side wins, the losers will exact a HUGE toll on the airline. "Book" flying, writing up every little discrepancy they can find at out stations, sick calls, every dirty trick known to pilots.

On top of that there will be terrible animosity between pilots groups. Jumpseat denials to guys in their own company, etc. Its already starting to happen.

"A house divided cannot stand," said Abraham Lincoln. And that's a perfect example of what will happen at USAir. They cannot go indefinately with two separate pilot groups, two sets of work rules and two pay scales.

And you can bet each group will do everything in their power to louse up the operation in the other guy's domicile cities.
 
Velocipede said:
On top of that there will be terrible animosity between pilots groups. Jumpseat denials to guys in their own company, etc. Its already starting to happen.
Click to expand...

I was left at the gate (along with about 6 mainline east siders) in PHX last month with more than 20 empty seats in the back. The gate agent and CA had a huge role in that one. Shoot, I don't even work for mainline but a wholly owned. They even boarded out of seniority because we watched 3-4 Mesa pilots and rampers (who board at a lower seniority) get called and load up.
 
Well, I saw that happens at DTW. East pilots were angy at gate agents and rampies when they find out they used to work for West side. ;). It sounds like gang warfare. East Side vs West Side. :D

One more prove merger is not good for employees. :rolleyes:
 
flywithUS said:
I am a big ALPA supporter (even though I support USAPA is this case), but I am not going to lie to you, you make ALPA look ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Let me tell you who looks ridiculous. Its 3800 USAir East pilots who:

A. Went into SLI meetings demanding DoH.
B. Agreed to BINDING arbitration.
C. Continued to demand DoH when the ARBITRATOR HIMSELF told you it wasn't going to fly.
D. Started screaming like a bunch of stuck pigs (a PERFECT allusion!) when the list was ratioed.
E. Are now acting like bunch of spoiled brats who are going to take their ball and go home.

Again, your problem isn't with ALPA, its with the AAA MEC guys who screwed you. And now you're going to slip on your yellow lanyard and lynch yourselves because you didn't get your way.

Now that, my friend, is ridiculous. :banghead:
 
Velocipede said:
Let me tell you who looks ridiculous. Its 3800 USAir East pilots who:

A. Went into SLI meetings demanding DoH.
B. Agreed to BINDING arbitration.
C. Continued to demand DoH when the ARBITRATOR HIMSELF told you it wasn't going to fly.
D. Started screaming like a bunch of stuck pigs (a PERFECT allusion!) when the list was ratioed.
E. Are now acting like bunch of spoiled brats who are going to take their ball and go home.

Again, your problem isn't with ALPA, its with the AAA MEC guys who screwed you. And now you're going to slip on your yellow lanyard and lynch yourselves because you didn't get your way.

Now that, my friend, is ridiculous. :banghead:
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
So excuse my ignornace and I know it is...... But would Airways even be around today if it werent for AWA coming in and helping out during the rough goings?
 
But it's not just the East guys that are getting screwed. Guys on the West side are getting screwed as well. I was in the jumpseat a couple days ago where the West Captain was in the top 10 before the lists combined, and now he'll be 500 something. You can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Does this mean I should take off my ALPA lanyard if I'm trying to get a jumpseat on East metal?!
 
CamYZ125 said:
But it's not just the East guys that are getting screwed. Guys on the West side are getting screwed as well. I was in the jumpseat a couple days ago where the West Captain was in the top 10 before the lists combined, and now he'll be 500 something.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though. He'll still retire in the top 10 pilots at the company. Except now the top ten is out of 6000 instead of 2500 and the top 10 guys are captains on an A330 flying across the pond instead of a 757 flying to Las Vegas.

Doesn't sound like he made out so bad to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top