USAPA versus Leonidas

derg

Apparently a "terse" writer
Staff member
Pilots slam seniority dispute

Posted: Thursday, Mar. 07, 2013
The Charlotte-based union that represents US Airways pilots has filed a legal motion seeking to pre-empt any challenge to the carrier’s upcoming merger with American Airlines by pilots unhappy with a combined seniority list.

The U.S. Airline Pilots Association filed the motion in federal bankruptcy court in New York, where American Airlines’ Chapter 11 bankruptcy case is being heard, on Wednesday.

The dispute is now in its eighth year, stemming from the merger between US Airways and America West. Pilots from the two companies never reached an agreement on how to integrate seniority lists – which determine pilots’ pay and what routes they fly – leading to years of bitter legal wrangling.

US Airways and American announced their intention to merge last month. But in Wednesday’s court filing, the US Airways pilots union said a group of former America West pilots have said they will sue to block the merger if their seniority list isn’t used.

The group of former America West pilots is known as Leonidas, after the Spartan general who stood against an army of Persians.

“We would like nothing better than to avoid court altogether but the (America) West Pilot Class, as represented by our legal firm, will use all means at its disposal to defend our seniority rights,” the Leonidas group wrote in a late February update on its website.

USAPA is seeking an injunction to prevent Leonidas from filing any actions to interfere with the merger.

“There is no question that the action itself would distract parties in interest, such as USAPA, US Airways and (American), from the important negotiations and tasks attendant to the Merger, would disrupt the orderly integration of the pilot work force,” USAPA said in its filing.

While US Airways CEO Doug Parker won support for the merger in large part by persuading American Airlines’ major unions to back his plan, labor unrest could still be a potential roadblock in the combination.

US Airways and America West pilots never negotiated a combined seniority list, and never reached a combined contract with the company. The groups, known as the East and West pilots, still fly separately, with different pay rates and work rules.

The $11 billion merged company would be called American Airlines and based in American’s current headquarters city of Fort Worth, Texas. The new company would be the largest airline in the U.S., and would have combined revenue of almost $40 billion.

Portillo: 704-358-5041 On Twitter @ESPortillo

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Is it possible that USAPA Pilots and American Pilots join lists while the Leonidas pilots stay separate?

How many America West pilots are there, is USAPA just waiting for them to retire instead of trying to come to terms?
 
I thought that was going the other way. Waiting for the primary USAPA grandpas to retire. Could be wrong, I stopped caring or paying attention to the LCC pilot groups' two year olds shenanigans a long time ago. Explain to me again how "binding" isn't "binding..."
 
Binding is merely a heavy suggestion. Like the police saying "Drop your weapon or I will shoot."

Huh! That is just the beginning of the negotiation!
 
Eh, based on what I know about the whole situation AOL and APA should get together, created a merged list using the Nic award, give the easties a few fences (no, really, you can have the 330s and the 190s) and base protections, and let them chew on it a while.

Whatever they get out of that has got to be better than what they have now.
 
Eh, based on what I know about the whole situation AOL and APA should get together, created a merged list using the Nic award, give the easties a few fences (no, really, you can have the 330s and the 190s) and base protections, and let them chew on it a while.

Whatever they get out of that has got to be better than what they have now.
If they drag their feet another two years aren't most of the easties who won't benefit from a new SLI and contract retire?
 
If they drag their feet another two years aren't most of the easties who won't benefit from a new SLI and contract retire?

No. Most of the guys that are most seriously harmed by the Nic are towards the bottom of the list. These were the ones who were furloughed at some point in time (many down to MidTitanic) and had that counted against them even though they never left the AAA certificate (at MDA).
 
Well... the Airways guys that don't have to accept their new crap seniority are doing ok too.

Really? You think getting paid $124/hr to fly an Airbus is "doing ok?" When the Kirby Proposal with big pay increases was on the table from the company seven years ago? This is an unmitigated disaster. No one is benefiting. Not even management.
 
Really? You think getting paid $124/hr to fly an Airbus is "doing ok?" When the Kirby Proposal with big pay increases was on the table from the company seven years ago? This is an unmitigated disaster. No one is benefiting. Not even management.
We are talking seniority and you are talking pay. You understand I was talking about seniority right? Maybe no one is benefiting financially, but we can all agree keeping your seniority is a pretty good deal? Wasn't you that said pay is temporary and seniority is forever during the SWA/AT SLI?
You get pretty opinionated about this thing but I have a lot of sympathy for the Airways guys and it really doesn't bother me they pushed the nuke button.

I don't want to get in a big fight about it, but obviously you are a little biased and the Airways guys are doing it for some reason that benefits them.
No. Most of the guys that are most seriously harmed by the Nic are towards the bottom of the list. These were the ones who were furloughed at some point in time (many down to MidTitanic) and had that counted against them even though they never left the AAA certificate (at MDA).
My limited understanding was the pilot group is so old that after a decade of stopping the Nic award most of the captains who benefited would be able to retire. I guess the majority of pilots (being FO's) would be the ones screwed to the wall the hardest, but the FO's gotta want the pay increase rather than continuing blocking the Nic, right? I've been out of the airways system so much I've really lost touch. Most of the Airways guys I run across are Jetblue guys in JFK anymore.
 
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