Seems to be working out pretty good for him though, don't it.
(back off grammar Nazi's!)
US AAirways A330 forgets to take the wrapper off a catering truck
- Thread starter ChasenSFO
- Start date
Seems to be working out pretty good for him though, don't it.
(back off grammar Nazi's!)
Or the catering truck driver at SFO who destroyed a Gulfstream and ripped off his head in the process:
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=149272
The plane sat on the Signature ramp in a corner for several months. It was ultimately scrapped right after the Asiana 777 fuselage in I think August 2013.
Brainer!
Obviously paying more attention as we taxi around the airport, I am surprised about the number of airport vehicles driving around, head down in mobile devices, driving right in front of airplanes… in the ice.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Or the catering truck driver at SFO who destroyed a Gulfstream and ripped off his head in the process:
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=149272
The plane sat on the Signature ramp in a corner for several months. It was ultimately scrapped right after the Asiana 777 fuselage in I think August 2013.
Dang. He hit the Gulfstream so hard that it turned 200 degrees.
Springer
Well-Known Member
Yep, worked out for me as well since I flew some of them.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I fixed it for you.
smack300
Well-Known Member
I studied this accident in class, not saying it is all the legacy pilots fault, but man they sure didn't help anything. The captain didn't know the systems, they turned off tcas, and they didn't talk to ATC for almost an hour, then tried to contact again but they were out of range. And they were at the wrong altitude then what was filed, and wrong altitude for their direction. ATC in Brazil did make plenty of errors but it was definitely not all one sided.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Other than recognizing that their transponder was on standby, how were the pilots to blame?
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
With his foot. I'm sure it happened just about regularly and went unnoticed the rest of the flight without consequence. I mean if we're being real, they just got the airplane, ATC is being wonky, they're playing around learning about their new jet with the CA likely having no idea that his foot could tap the TCAS. Yes, they could have caught it, but it's hardly what caused the accident and I wouldn't say it puts any real blame on them.
I'd like to know how common this is in that part of the world. I'd be surprised if it's not normal to be out of contact for an hour or two sometimes before a transmission. IIRC, ATC forgot to hand them off, right? Again, to what extent are they supposed to be baby sitting ATC on an IFR flightplan?
"When in Rome". You're flying in Brazil for most likely the first time, ATC assigns you an altitude, other frequencies don't complain, how likely are you to refuse it or demand an explanation?
Technically, yes, the crew could have helped to prevent this incident. But practically and realistically, I think they played a such a small role in the grand scheme of things that lead to this accident that I would never go as far to call them "idiots" or blame them for the crash.
scooter2525
Very well Member
How did you get my family photos?Don't make me pull this damn car over! I'll come back there and really give you something to complain about!
Dexter
Hop off there, Blonde Ambition Tour
knot4u
Repeat Offender
That's pretty close, are you ok?
smack300
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I am not blaming it all on the pilots, but a couple easy things they could've done and things would be different. I am sure in some parts of the world pilots don't talk to ATC for a while, but they were flying over Brasilia, not just nowhere over the ocean.
Yes ATC forgot to hand them off. And for when in Rome, all they had to say was "should we stay at FL370"? Not demanding or refusing it, just a one second question.
And should the CA really be learning a brand new aircraft in the air with pax in the back? They were supposed to spend more time in the aircraft flying it around but they ran out of time because wx and had to do the flight to the US. So they skipped a lot of it to stay with the time constraints set by the company.
I am not blaming it on the pilots and I didn't call them idiots, just saying there is more to this story than ATC screwing up. Also, I read and listened to more of this accident then what wiki says, even listened to the cvr, and it has much to tell.
I am just saying all of this to get across that it is more than one or two things to cause this accident, and most accidents. I don't really want to play a blame game, but really learn how either side could of done things to prevent it. Always trying to learn to be a better pilot, and evetually be a better controller whenever OKC decides to call me.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Actually you probably have better coverage and better communications over the middle of the ocean than most places in Brazil. Comes to ATC Brazil is a Third World country.
I fly the wrong way altitude all the time in the US, because I requested sometimes because ATC assigns it. Never have I felt the need to double check the altitude given.
You clearly need to do a lot more research. It was not a revenue-generating flight. Also both of the pilots were were PIC type rated in the 145, The legacy is just about the same plane even has the same type rating.
smack300
Well-Known Member
Okay guys, I'm not throwing the pilots under the bus here. So we can all chill a little. I was just pointing out small things. I did plenty of research on it, but also my professor who walked us through it is an ATCer. He blamed the pilots more than most people should. I was just saying small things could have helped the situation. Yes my professor shaped my opinion a little, but I still don't blame the pilots.
But for sake of the argument, if you knew ATC in Brazil is like 3rd world country status, wouldn't you not trust ATC as much as you do in the States? I would think, if ATC assigned me a wrong altitude in the US, it wouldn't be a big deal like you mentioned. But if Brazil does the same thing and I know they are not as good as US controllers, wouldn't I be more curious about it?
Also, the FMC was different than what they were used to, you can even hear it on the recording that the CA couldn't figure out how to tell their arrival time, for example.
Clearly you all are on the side of the pilots, and I am too... I was just bringing up things because it is helpful to know that it is more than a few mistakes that lead to something like this. I enjoy looking at accidents to learn and see what either side could have done to avoid them.
boondr
Penalty Vectorer
Sorry even as an ATC, despite possible contributory factors by the pilots that accident was all on the ATC/ATC system, regardless of whether the transponder was turned off accidentally or it went off due to malfunction, the controller never told the pilots, then forgot the altitude the aircraft was at(system defaulted to showing altitude the SHOULD have been at).
Only way you could blame the pilots is if they intentionally turned off the transponder, (which is what Brazil's military tried to imply to mitigate their responsibility) and I find it unfathomable that they would do that.
Only way you could blame the pilots is if they intentionally turned off the transponder, (which is what Brazil's military tried to imply to mitigate their responsibility) and I find it unfathomable that they would do that.