UPS 747 Crash from 2010, Conclusion. Cause was Lithium Batteries
- Thread starter SeanD
- Start date
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Make sure you don't drop kick Lithium Ion batteries before you put them on a pallet. As it has been said money is the determining factor and nothing will change as long as 3 or 4 people die.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Some changes where I work are full face masks rather than a mask and the "high school science class" goggles. Also, EVAS, which is a plastic bag thingy that fills with air and allows you to see the panel even with heavy smoke in the cockpit. Lastly, a new cargo container that is more fire resistant is in the works.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Don do your planes typically weigh out before space out? I ask because those new cans seem like they might weigh a lot. We all know that weight is money.
Same goes for you guys......nearest suitable piece of putdown place for your particular plane, airport or not. Because in some situations, trying to beat a fire to a suitable airport, the odds will be with the house at the outset and only getting worse.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"Don do your planes typically weigh out before space out? I ask because those new cans seem like they might weigh a lot. We all know that weight is money."
Honestly, I'm not really sure. They bring me a nice W and B form, we plug the numbers into the box, and off we go. I'm not too concerned with how much stuff is back there or how full the can's are. I can say this, we are almost never heavy enough domestically where aircraft performance is the limiting factor. In fact, we are often quite light. So, I don't think heavier can's would be an issue.
We are getting EFB's so no more 40 lb flight bags. Maybe that will offset the heavier can's...hehe.
Honestly, I'm not really sure. They bring me a nice W and B form, we plug the numbers into the box, and off we go. I'm not too concerned with how much stuff is back there or how full the can's are. I can say this, we are almost never heavy enough domestically where aircraft performance is the limiting factor. In fact, we are often quite light. So, I don't think heavier can's would be an issue.
We are getting EFB's so no more 40 lb flight bags. Maybe that will offset the heavier can's...hehe.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Indeed it would seem that the risk of an unplanned and unprepared ditching might be lower, in certain circumstances, than trying to go to an airport.
(not in ANY way criticizing this crew, of course—just gaming things out.)
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Agree.
No criticizing at all; just an observation and idea that many people don't ever consider as a possibility because it's never been thought of as a possibility in any kind of training.
KLB
Well-Known Member
Kelvin, you have an apu now. Give a guy an inch.... Jeesh!
If only it blew cool air in the cockpit.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I find it cryptically amusing that the most common argument for "why Lithium?" Is "they are just that much more awesome." It appears that they are awesome at a lot of things! When was the last time you had an electrical emergency or a dead battery on the ground and thought wow Lithium would make the world so much better. I get it that Lithium is lighter for the energy. We're not talking wings here, though or seats or an entire fuselage. We're talking batteries and it's costing lives and tons of debate in the industry. The bean counters are winning.
For everything else, find a different way to transport them.
For everything else, find a different way to transport them.
Itchy
Well-Known Member
Not sure what you are getting at. The batteries that doomed the flight were freight. Lithium batteries power our watches, cell phones, some hybrids, laptops, rc, etc. Although, I agree, I think they could have been engineered out of the 787 solution....
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
I read a study that found an average of 18 minutes to get down for a successful outcome to an onboard fire. At my old job when I did almost all international, i would frequently point that out to new guys as we approached 30 west for their first time.
I agree. And what that means is that there may be situations where the plane is coming down to earth one way or another. The crew can choose to do it controlled to possibly a place that isn't an airport but is otherwise a landable surface (or even a not-fully-suitable airport); or they can gamble time getting to a suitable airport, and have the situation determine for them when the plane is coming out of the sky, out of their control. A completely crappy situation to be in ever, but one that's possible to find oneself in.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
On the CRJ side at XJT there were some situations in the QRH that suggested the crew consider an off airport landing. It would be a really tough decision to make!
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
Yeah. I skimmed the report, but even the skimming was hard. That FO was trying his damnedest to get that on the ground in one piece. So many things went so very wrong that it's amazing he got as far as he did. RIP to those guys.
Have there been/will there be any changes as a result of this incident, and all of the known hazards of lithium batteries when they get going? Special containers? Not placing lithium loads or anything that contains lithium batteries (watches, phones, iPads, etc) beneath the cockpit? Seems like such a crap way for an airplane to go down and take the crew with it.
Have there been/will there be any changes as a result of this incident, and all of the known hazards of lithium batteries when they get going? Special containers? Not placing lithium loads or anything that contains lithium batteries (watches, phones, iPads, etc) beneath the cockpit? Seems like such a crap way for an airplane to go down and take the crew with it.