ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
I understand. It took at least 10 tries to get the CVR transcript to come up. Ended up sitting there just hitting F5 until I got a favorable response!
Update on 3407
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I understand. It took at least 10 tries to get the CVR transcript to come up. Ended up sitting there just hitting F5 until I got a favorable response!
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Man, this may be the one where the excrement hits the fan. The nasty messages being directed at the late captain are getting pretty intense on news message boards. Hopefully some positive change will come of this - maybe folks will realize the crappy conditions/pay you guys face.
WacoFan
Bigly
I hope the Captain and FO's families have peace and that people leave them alone. There are instances where the kids of pilots families have been harassed by other kids in the wake of a "pilot error" finding (or even a pilot error innuendo). Bottom line - accident investigation (in my view) is not about assesing blame as much as preventing future accidents. I hope the Captains children are going to be ok - they are the ones I am thinking of now.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
I think she thought it was a tailplane stall, too. I think that would be the correct action in that scenario. Although, frankly, from the transcript, the F/O sounded like she should have been driving 172s in Arizona or Florida, not a 70 person airplane in the northeast. The Captain had a lot on his plate, and some of it was already in the cockpit with him. I find it interesting that he's being assassinated in the press for an incorrect response to a bad situation, but no one is making a peep about the fact that the F/O was flying so sick she had to beg for a special PD descent so her delicate little ears wouldn't clog up. Or that she had 800 hours in the airplane but thought some ice would make it explode.
There but for the grace of God go we all still applies, but jeez, who hires these people?
There but for the grace of God go we all still applies, but jeez, who hires these people?
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
"Begging"? "Delicate little ears"? Please. Keep the CNN/Fox News style sensationalism out of it.
I think that's a misrepresentation in the transcript. Read it carefully...I think she meant that when she started at Colgan, she would have thought such.
She apparently had 1600hrs of time when she got hired...a lot more than most FO's hired in the last couple of years.
1600 hours in PHX isn't the same as 1600 hours in the Northeast. It's not all about the number, its the experience that goes along with the number. She said she got more actual on day one of IOE than she ever got in those 1600 hours. I got hired at around 650 and had close to 20 hours of actual. Equal TT doesn't necessarily mean equal experience.
WacoFan
Bigly
I was wondering that as well. Wouldn't putting the flaps up increase the stall speed?
Champcar
Well-Known Member
Yeah it wouldn't of helped thats for sure.
TheShocker
Well-Known Member
In this New York Times article, there is the 3D Animation from the NTSB with data taken from the FDR and CVR. Really highlights what went wrong
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/nyregion/13crash.html?ref=nyregion
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/13/nyregion/13crash.html?ref=nyregion
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
With all the comments about the flaps...
Did anybody else notice no increase in power from before the gear was selected down until the shaker went off. Anybody else see the rapid decay in airspeed?
Heard in the NTSB hearing earlier it was something like 50 knots in 20 seconds.
Did anybody else notice no increase in power from before the gear was selected down until the shaker went off. Anybody else see the rapid decay in airspeed?
Heard in the NTSB hearing earlier it was something like 50 knots in 20 seconds.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Yeah, I shoulda never been hired at Pinnacle, then. I did all my flying in Florida and Texas. Never really saw ice on an airplane 'till I got here. I agree there are differing amounts of total time, but let's face it. 650 with 20 actual isn't all that, either.....
Champcar
Well-Known Member
I noticed that. At 2,000 ft it seemed like he had it under control and all he needed was to push the stick forward.
The second the stick shaker went off he pitched up
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Yeah, all the talk about duty times, flying sick or whatever. If you don't put the power back and dirty it up this type of will happen every time.
Stupid will kill you dead.
LineUpAndWait
Well-Known Member
Inexplicable unless his seat slid back on the track. Did you see on the transcript that he was adjusting it (with accompanying sliding sound) about 2 minutes before all hell broke loose.
Maybe I've got too many hours in Skyhawks with crappy seat tracks, but crazier things have certainly caused accidents in the past.
400A
New Member
What happens to the props in the -400 when you move the condition levers to high? I have flown the 100 through 300 model and those all put the props to 1200 at high. I seem to remember hearing/reading/imagining that the condition levers on the -400 were more for commonality than function, ie the FADEC controlled prop RPM more so than the pilots could with the condition levers?
KLB
Well-Known Member
Exactly. And there is very little instances where I would be flying a small GA aircraft with little to no ice protection into icing conditions!
I got my first real experience in icing conditions on my very first flight by myself at AMF. I was brand new, in the chieftan, and was TDY flying out of BFI in mid to late December. I took off into 500ft overcast and didn't break out until about 600ft overcast on the ILS into Bellingham. I have to admit that I was holding on for dear life that entire flight! It was very hard to stay dicipline to the company's deice procedure and not just blow the boots at the very first little of ice that attached to the wings!
Thats why I have always and will continue to believe that there should be something between flying small GA aircraft and moving into passenger carrying airliner. There should be a little more of the "been there, done that" factor going into the regionals. Just my opinion though.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I woulda been the same way. IMO, this might actually be a bit worse than 121 flying in ice for the first time. At least when I had my first ice encounter, I had an experienced CA sitting next to me to calm me down. If you read the transcript on the Colgan crash, the FO was actually thinking along GOOD lines. She said she didn't think she should upgrade until she'd gotten some winter flying in the northeast under her belt. I felt the same way in the CRJ, actually. I had two winters under my belt by the time I upgraded, so I had a LOT more experience than I did when I first hired on when it came to icing. DTW and MSP are pretty good for that.
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