Unpaid training legal?

[av8tr1]

Funny enough I am the type to put in the extra effort. I am happy to put in 150% or even more if I know the company is going to be there for me. I am happy to do it if its reciprocated. I even got people here at Jet careers giving me a hard time for putting in the extra effort. Suggesting it was ridiculous to do so.

I think most people would be surprised the amount of effort I put in at Seaport to make the company work. I volunteered to run their IT dept with no budget working what was supposed to be 20 hours a week just overseeing the external IT vendor who couldn't do anything right. Ended up working many 14 hour days regularly, giving up flight time to make sure the company was able to operate. Worked xmas and new years on an IT emergency. No complaints. Can't tell you how many personal issues I gave up because Seaport "needed" me.

Paid 100s out of pocket for morale building events like bowling. No compensation from the company. Setup a great opportunity for the company to do pilot recruiting at Oshkosh. A few days before I am supposed to leave the event was given to a non pilot in HR because they "didn't want to pay for me to go there" (but they paid for HR to go).

I like to work. Got no problem pitching in and doing "extra". But if a company is just going to take advantage of that then I have to question their motivation. Personally I am tired of being taken advantage of by these bottom feeders. Training is a cost of doing business.

You want good employees you need to make the same effort on them as you expect them to make on you.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Funny enough I am the type to put in the extra effort. I am happy to put in 150% or even more if I know the company is going to be there for me. I am happy to do it if its reciprocated. I even got people here at Jet careers giving me a hard time for putting in the extra effort. Suggesting it was ridiculous to do so.

I think most people would be surprised the amount of effort I put in at Seaport to make the company work. I volunteered to run their IT dept with no budget working what was supposed to be 20 hours a week just overseeing the external IT vendor who couldn't do anything right. Ended up working many 14 hour days regularly, giving up flight time to make sure the company was able to operate. Worked xmas and new years on an IT emergency. No complaints. Can't tell you how many personal issues I gave up because Seaport "needed" me.

Paid 100s out of pocket for morale building events like bowling. No compensation from the company. Setup a great opportunity for the company to do pilot recruiting at Oshkosh. A few days before I am supposed to leave the event was given to a non pilot in HR because they "didn't want to pay for me to go there" (but they paid for HR to go).

I like to work. Got no problem pitching in and doing "extra". But if a company is just going to take advantage of that then I have to question their motivation. Personally I am tired of being taken advantage of by these bottom feeders. Training is a cost of doing business.

You want good employees you need to make the same effort on them as you expect them to make on you.

That people still do that sort of thing to their employees really shows alot about their character.

 

[splash]

Funny enough I am the type to put in the extrt effort. I am happy to put in 150% or even more if I know the costereotype poing to be there for me. I am happy to do it if its reciprocated. I even got people here at Jet careers giving me a hard time for putting in the extra effort. Suggesting it was ridiculous to do so.

I think most people would be surprised the amount of effort I put in at Seaport to make the company work. I volunteered to run their IT dept with no budget working what was supposed to be 20 hours a week just overseeing the external IT vendor who couldn't do anything right. Ended up working many 14 hour days regularly, giving up flight time to make sure the company was able to operate. Worked xmas and new years on an IT emergency. No complaints. Can't tell you how many personal issues I gave up because Seaport "needed" me.

Paid 100s out of pocket for morale building events like bowling. No compensation from the company. Setup a great opportunity for the company to do pilot recruiting at Oshkosh. A few days before I am supposed to leave the event was given to a non pilot in HR because they "didn't want to pay for me to go there" (but they paid for HR to go).

I like to work. Got no problem pitching in and doing "extra". But if a company is just going to take advantage of that then I have to question their motivation. Personally I am tired of being taken advantage of by these bottom feeders. Training is a cost of doing business.

You want good employees you need to make the same effort on them as you expect them to make on you.

If it hasn't paid (I should find a better word) off yet then it will someday. Take what you learn from it and bring it elsewhere and that is what I mean by paid off. That is the long haul. To an extreme I don't know if training is a cost of business but what do I know about business (Pink Floyd wish you were here album cover)?

Look at it this way... choosing a company is like getting to choose your own family! BUT...Sometimes you just don't get to choose your own family It's all you have. Some families wish you just wasn't there and they do the best they can to let you know this without saying it by their actions.

Maybe I sstereotype poorly here but I cringe when on interview I hear them say, "we are a good time building company". Well, I'm not here to build time, sorry you got the wrong pilot here. Do we really fly aircraft to "build time" as if it's something we really want? OK, pull'm out lets see who has the longest!

 

[splash]

I've met far more bottom feeders who were clients than those who were lawyers. The lawyers who were have stood out mostly because they were so unusual. Not that many people want to put in the high study hours and intense mental focus, or the 80+ hour work weeks, for a job that doesn't guarantee financial success. Most go into it with three characteristics. Intelligence, verbal aggressiveness, and a desire to make things better (or put another way, law students are typically smart loudmouths with social consciences). Even top-ranked law students feel this way - the involvement of very high-end law firms in pro bono activities is not as much about good marketing as it is something forced on them by the best job candidates who, after the insist on it as a conditions of giving up their personal lives .

I can understand the puking - listening your yourself can do that.

BTW, I agree with absolutely everything else in this post.

Smart loudmouths, ok...not sure about the social consciences characteristic from what I have experienced personally and by what I see in public (on a local level, it's bad politics, surprisingly no media involved on that extreme).

Seems like the bottom feeder clients and bottom feeder lawyers go hand in hand...both about making money or gaining control. The good ones with morals are hard to find, very hard to find. The "treat others as you would want them to treat you" don't exist to the majority of lawyers out there. I believe lawyers are a dying breed to be honest so they do anything for financial gain.

My thoughts are too loud to not listen to.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Actually they don't always go hand in hand. The true bottom feeder lawyers I've encountered have screwed their clients. And good lawyers sometimes have completely unreasonable clients but the rules that govern lawyer conduct can make it difficult to disassociate from even the very bad clients.

 

[🦈💜]

Ok, he a troll.

Or some sort of very good Markov chain generator. I haven't quite figured it out.

~Fox

 

[hook_dupin]

Actually they don't always go hand in hand. The true bottom feeder lawyers I've encountered have screwed their clients. And good lawyers sometimes have completely unreasonable clients but the rules that govern lawyer conduct can make it difficult to disassociate from even the very bad clients.

I think there's an iceberg effect here. For every obvious ambulance-chasing bottom-feeding attorney that the working public sees, there's a small army of various flavors of attorneys toiling away on discovery, M&A deals, IP, etc.

I don't think the public understands how vast the profession is. Most public interaction happens during divorce, child custody issues, or death... not exactly happy times.

 

[av8tr1]

I've had some really great lawyers in my professional and personal life. My mentor (and close friend) is a well known lawyer specializing in venture capital and business law. Helped me raise the investment capital for a software company. Out of probably 15 lawyers in my professional life, all but one have been outstanding.

Recently I had the misfortune to deal with the type everyone complains about. But her failure was so bad the attorney I replaced her with suggested and is representing me in a malpractice suit at no charge purely because of the bad name she has given the profession.

Full disclosure, I studied law before deciding a few years into my education I would rather pay for legal advice than give it (Way too much paperwork). So I have a very different view of the profession from the regular public.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I think there's an iceberg effect here. For every obvious ambulance-chasing bottom-feeding attorney that the working public sees, there's a small army of various flavors of attorneys toiling away on discovery, M&A deals, IP, representing pilots and mechanics when the FAA comes after them, etc.

I don't think the public understands how vast the profession is. Most public interaction happens during divorce, child custody issues, or death... not exactly happy times.

Edited above

 

[splash]

Or some sort of very good Markov chain generator. I haven't quite figured it out.

~Fox

I'm going through an identity crisis over here, now which one is it...troll of Markov chain generator? I getting use to troll but I ask you please put 2 behind it (the second movie was moe better). Markov chain generator? Hmmm, sounds complicated and technical bit moe respectable than troll. Whatevers though, I don't give a damn. I'm just a dumb human brain behind a real smart machine just like the rest of you mud dropping from rear humanoids.

 

[A Life Aloft]

My thoughts are too loud to not listen to.

They have some good meds for that now.

 

[splash]

They have some good meds for that now.

HA! Exactly what they want, everyone on meds to stop their thoughts. This is the prefect site because most pilots don't need meds to stop their thoughts (they have none just procedures,lol). Shut up and do what ya told, at a boy!

 

[A Life Aloft]

 

[splash]

yeah?
WTF, you saying I need meds for? If you are on any I'd suguest you get off of them so you could have the ability to think freely one day soon.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Seriously dude? I "worked" for a crappy bottom feeder for 3 months without pay. No pay for INDOC, had to pay my own way there and back. Tests were constantly wrong from POH. I got high 90s on every single test which turned into 100s after I had to point out the mistakes in the tests. I had to correct the instructor a bunch of times on wrong answers. He said "Pick the most right answer" which was still wrong. Not once did I do it challenging him. I was polite and respectful every single time. How long had people being going through training with these tests before I showed up? And I was right every single time.

Following month again I had to pay my own way to flight training. 2 weeks and I got 2 flights with the company. No aircraft and only one instructor available for 4 people. Then week two I got sick because the company housing was a f'n pig sty. Paid my way home. While there 4 people quit the company, one of which is a new student pilot with over 2000 hours. He got so tired of waiting he just quit one day.

Month three, again still havnt been paid. Pay my own way back up to training. Former chief pilot is brought back on because of staff shortage. Well known for having a large tree up his ass and no one at the company will fly with him. Shows up sick to fly with me. Entire time we fly he is complaining about his ears being stopped up. Had to abort a practice emergency because he couldn't clear his ears. Still have to wait around for aircraft and instructor availability. Then former CP gets pissed off at me because I asked to fly with someone else for my training. Then when I point out according to the POH their weight and balance forms are off by nearly 50lbs. Former CP who created the W&B form said don't worry about it they were going to fix it when they could afford to print new forms. Then when I asked for the training program to study I see a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply and is wrong. He tells me they just copied the 206 aircraft training manual, changed the name to the new aircraft and sent it off to the FAA for approval. As soon as they get it back he will make the changes.

I quit before I could finish my training and take my check ride.

Then on top of me not getting paid for any of this, I spent over 4,000 out of my pocket for travel to and from and they had the audacity to ask me to work the ramp in between training flights. And required me to be at the airport 14 hours a day while in training. All without ever seeing a dime from the bottom feeder.

So now you tell me whose in the wrong here. I "invested" over $4000 to this company. And countless hours working for free where I could have been earning a paycheck elsewhere. But according to you I didn't "pay my dues" or "blamed others for my inability to fly".

Wow, I fee like I dodged a bullet with Grant, as that's where I wanted to go initially. Where did you end up?