Unpaid training legal?

Look, all I'm saying is to take some happy pills and find something else to cry about, no pay training, so what! It's not like you lose half of everything you own, people get married for that!

Try not to blame others for your crappy inability to learn in the field you chose to be in. And we all should be rich too, eh? Where the hell is this damn culture going?

Stick it in a glory hole and stop crying about your shoe laces coming untied. Need more of these :-)? Call the bottom feeders or start a riot somewhere they will understand.
 
splash said:
Look, all I'm saying is to take some happy pills and find something else to cry about, no pay training, so what! It's not like you lose half of everything you own, people get married for that!

Try not to blame others for your crappy inability to learn in the field you chose to be in. And we all should be rich too, eh? Where the hell is this damn culture going?

Stick it in a glory hole and stop crying about your shoe laces coming untied. Need more of these :)?
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Seriously dude? I "worked" for a crappy bottom feeder for 3 months without pay. No pay for INDOC, had to pay my own way there and back. Tests were constantly wrong from POH. I got high 90s on every single test which turned into 100s after I had to point out the mistakes in the tests. I had to correct the instructor a bunch of times on wrong answers. He said "Pick the most right answer" which was still wrong. Not once did I do it challenging him. I was polite and respectful every single time. How long had people being going through training with these tests before I showed up? And I was right every single time.

Following month again I had to pay my own way to flight training. 2 weeks and I got 2 flights with the company. No aircraft and only one instructor available for 4 people. Then week two I got sick because the company housing was a f'n pig sty. Paid my way home. While there 4 people quit the company, one of which is a new student pilot with over 2000 hours. He got so tired of waiting he just quit one day.

Month three, again still havnt been paid. Pay my own way back up to training. Former chief pilot is brought back on because of staff shortage. Well known for having a large tree up his ass and no one at the company will fly with him. Shows up sick to fly with me. Entire time we fly he is complaining about his ears being stopped up. Had to abort a practice emergency because he couldn't clear his ears. Still have to wait around for aircraft and instructor availability. Then former CP gets pissed off at me because I asked to fly with someone else for my training. Then when I point out according to the POH their weight and balance forms are off by nearly 50lbs. Former CP who created the W&B form said don't worry about it they were going to fix it when they could afford to print new forms. Then when I asked for the training program to study I see a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply and is wrong. He tells me they just copied the 206 aircraft training manual, changed the name to the new aircraft and sent it off to the FAA for approval. As soon as they get it back he will make the changes.

I quit before I could finish my training and take my check ride.

Then on top of me not getting paid for any of this, I spent over 4,000 out of my pocket for travel to and from and they had the audacity to ask me to work the ramp in between training flights. And required me to be at the airport 14 hours a day while in training. All without ever seeing a dime from the bottom feeder.

So now you tell me whose in the wrong here. I "invested" over $4000 to this company. And countless hours working for free where I could have been earning a paycheck elsewhere. But according to you I didn't "pay my dues" or "blamed others for my inability to fly".
 
av8tr1 said:
Seriously dude? I "worked" for a crappy bottom feeder for 3 months without pay. No pay for INDOC, had to pay my own way there and back. Tests were constantly wrong from POH. I got high 90s on every single test which turned into 100s after I had to point out the mistakes in the tests. I had to correct the instructor a bunch of times on wrong answers. He said "Pick the most right answer" which was still wrong. Not once did I do it challenging him. I was polite and respectful every single time. How long had people being going through training with these tests before I showed up? And I was right every single time.

Following month again I had to pay my own way to flight training. 2 weeks and I got 2 flights with the company. No aircraft and only one instructor available for 4 people. Then week two I got sick because the company housing was a f'n pig sty. Paid my way home. While there 4 people quit the company, one of which is a new student pilot with over 2000 hours. He got so tired of waiting he just quit one day.

Month three, again still havnt been paid. Pay my own way back up to training. Former chief pilot is brought back on because of staff shortage. Well known for having a large tree up his ass and no one at the company will fly with him. Shows up sick to fly with me. Entire time we fly he is complaining about his ears being stopped up. Had to abort a practice emergency because he couldn't clear his ears. Still have to wait around for aircraft and instructor availability. Then former CP gets pissed off at me because I asked to fly with someone else for my training. Then when I point out according to the POH their weight and balance forms are off by nearly 50lbs. Former CP who created the W&B form said don't worry about it they were going to fix it when they could afford to print new forms. Then when I asked for the training program to study I see a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply and is wrong. He tells me they just copied the 206 aircraft training manual, changed the name to the new aircraft and sent it off to the FAA for approval. As soon as they get it back he will make the changes.

I quit before I could finish my training and take my check ride.

Then on top of me not getting paid for any of this, I spent over 4,000 out of my pocket for travel to and from and they had the audacity to ask me to work the ramp in between training flights. And required me to be at the airport 14 hours a day while in training. All without ever seeing a dime from the bottom feeder.

So now you tell me whose in the wrong here. I "invested" over $4000 to this company. And countless hours working for free where I could have been earning a paycheck elsewhere. But according to you I didn't "pay my dues" or "blamed others for my inability to fly".
Click to expand...


Dang, Your old job doesn't sound that bad at all now, does it?? :)
 
JDean3204 said:
Dang, Your old job doesn't sound that bad at all now, does it?? :)
Click to expand...

Oh James, if you only knew......Might take a gander at those Seaport bankruptcy filings. There is another big shoe about to drop. I'd be looking for a job if I were you.
 
av8tr1 said:
Seriously dude? I "worked" for a crappy bottom feeder for 3 months without pay. No pay for INDOC, had to pay my own way there and back. Tests were constantly wrong from POH. I got high 90s on every single test which turned into 100s after I had to point out the mistakes in the tests. I had to correct the instructor a bunch of times on wrong answers. He said "Pick the most right answer" which was still wrong. Not once did I do it challenging him. I was polite and respectful every single time. How long had people being going through training with these tests before I showed up? And I was right every single time.

Following month again I had to pay my own way to flight training. 2 weeks and I got 2 flights with the company. No aircraft and only one instructor available for 4 people. Then week two I got sick because the company housing was a f'n pig sty. Paid my way home. While there 4 people quit the company, one of which is a new student pilot with over 2000 hours. He got so tired of waiting he just quit one day.

Month three, again still havnt been paid. Pay my own way back up to training. Former chief pilot is brought back on because of staff shortage. Well known for having a large tree up his ass and no one at the company will fly with him. Shows up sick to fly with me. Entire time we fly he is complaining about his ears being stopped up. Had to abort a practice emergency because he couldn't clear his ears. Still have to wait around for aircraft and instructor availability. Then former CP gets pissed off at me because I asked to fly with someone else for my training. Then when I point out according to the POH their weight and balance forms are off by nearly 50lbs. Former CP who created the W&B form said don't worry about it they were going to fix it when they could afford to print new forms. Then when I asked for the training program to study I see a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply and is wrong. He tells me they just copied the 206 aircraft training manual, changed the name to the new aircraft and sent it off to the FAA for approval. As soon as they get it back he will make the changes.

I quit before I could finish my training and take my check ride.

Then on top of me not getting paid for any of this, I spent over 4,000 out of my pocket for travel to and from and they had the audacity to ask me to work the ramp in between training flights. And required me to be at the airport 14 hours a day while in training. All without ever seeing a dime from the bottom feeder.

So now you tell me whose in the wrong here. I "invested" over $4000 to this company. And countless hours working for free where I could have been earning a paycheck elsewhere. But according to you I didn't "pay my dues" or "blamed others for my inability to fly".
Click to expand...

Where do I apply? Now we are talking! I never called it paying your dues. People use to tell me that too, hated it. I think I have been with that company you speak of, you know the "time building" companies. You would be shocked to know when I quit logging flight time because of this. I didn't and still don't believe pilots should compete with each other like this. Who has the upper hand always if we do though? It would be fun to compete with each other in aerobatics. Seriously, I been there and in a place totaly out of my climate area thousands of miles away from home. You get the craziness look from your close friends you tell the story to. Your girlfriend or wife looks at you like a selfish S.O.B. doesn't want to be with someone holding a bus pass. So, then you get targeted by peers to get a "J_O_B" doing anything else rather than continue your selfish career. "So, think you are better than McDonalds, eh?" No, but look...I do believe I have more to offer in this world and I have had many "J–O–Bs" in my lifetime. Plus, we put man on the moon with the most elementary technology so many years ago...So, why does McD need people flipping burgers today if the technology is there to free them from the bottom, crap didn't and still doesn't make much sense to me. I know this though, I look at things very different now. I see the amount of propaganda out there to make you believe what happiness is. I don't chase the imaginary valued paper and it is all an adventure. People judge easy, lazy, but somehow an investor making money simply by having it is...what, a good role model and not just as lazy? That is humorous to me. Some folks lucky, some folks aint. Fly on my friend.
 
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av8tr1 said:
Seriously dude? I "worked" for a crappy bottom feeder for 3 months without pay. No pay for INDOC, had to pay my own way there and back. Tests were constantly wrong from POH. I got high 90s on every single test which turned into 100s after I had to point out the mistakes in the tests. I had to correct the instructor a bunch of times on wrong answers. He said "Pick the most right answer" which was still wrong. Not once did I do it challenging him. I was polite and respectful every single time. How long had people being going through training with these tests before I showed up? And I was right every single time.

Following month again I had to pay my own way to flight training. 2 weeks and I got 2 flights with the company. No aircraft and only one instructor available for 4 people. Then week two I got sick because the company housing was a f'n pig sty. Paid my way home. While there 4 people quit the company, one of which is a new student pilot with over 2000 hours. He got so tired of waiting he just quit one day.

Month three, again still havnt been paid. Pay my own way back up to training. Former chief pilot is brought back on because of staff shortage. Well known for having a large tree up his ass and no one at the company will fly with him. Shows up sick to fly with me. Entire time we fly he is complaining about his ears being stopped up. Had to abort a practice emergency because he couldn't clear his ears. Still have to wait around for aircraft and instructor availability. Then former CP gets pissed off at me because I asked to fly with someone else for my training. Then when I point out according to the POH their weight and balance forms are off by nearly 50lbs. Former CP who created the W&B form said don't worry about it they were going to fix it when they could afford to print new forms. Then when I asked for the training program to study I see a bunch of stuff that doesn't apply and is wrong. He tells me they just copied the 206 aircraft training manual, changed the name to the new aircraft and sent it off to the FAA for approval. As soon as they get it back he will make the changes.

I quit before I could finish my training and take my check ride.

Then on top of me not getting paid for any of this, I spent over 4,000 out of my pocket for travel to and from and they had the audacity to ask me to work the ramp in between training flights. And required me to be at the airport 14 hours a day while in training. All without ever seeing a dime from the bottom feeder.

So now you tell me whose in the wrong here. I "invested" over $4000 to this company. And countless hours working for free where I could have been earning a paycheck elsewhere. But according to you I didn't "pay my dues" or "blamed others for my inability to fly".
Click to expand...
To be fair I'm pretty sure several people on here warned you about that operation.
 
splash said:
Where do I apply? Now we are talking! I never called it paying your dues. People use to tell me that too, hated it. I think I have been with that company you speak of, you know the "time building" companies. You would be shocked to know when I quit logging flight time because of this. I didn't and still don't believe pilots should compete with each other like this. Who has the upper hand always if we do though? It would be fun to compete with each other in aerobatics. Seriously, I been there and in a place totaly out of my climate area thousands of miles away from home. You get the craziness look from your close friends you tell the story to. Your girlfriend or wife looks at you like a selfish S.O.B. doesn't want to be with someone holding a bus pass. So, then you get targeted by peers to get a "J_O_B" doing anything else rather than continue your selfish career. "So, think you are better than McDonalds, eh?" No, but look...I do believe I have more to offer in this world and I have had many "J–O–Bs" in my lifetime. Plus, we put man on the moon with the most elementary technology so many years ago...So, why does McD need people flipping burgers today if the technology is there to free them from the bottom, crap didn't and still doesn't make much sense to me. I know this though, I look at things very different now. I see the amount of propaganda out there to make you believe what happiness is. I don't chase the imaginary valued paper and it is all an adventure. People judge easy, lazy, but somehow an investor making money simply by having it is...what, a good role model and not just as lazy? That is humorous to me. Some folks lucky, some folks aint. Fly on my friend.
Click to expand...

Uhhhh.....did you just throw up on your keyboard or was there some sort of point to that rambling post?
 
av8tr1 said:
Uhhhh.....did you just throw up on your keyboard or was there some sort of point to that rambling post?
Click to expand...

No I did not puke, I got some real life out of your post... an experience you cared to share with many of us in the same field. Thank you truly for sharing on my behalf. Don't get discussed by it because it was a learning experience. Some of us in the field don't get that experience. I shared my experience with you AND the aftermath which it has shaped me to become through my observations. av8tr1, I just interviewed with the kind of operation you call crapy. I have another offer on my table though. The key is to learn how to spot them by asking them question about who they are. It is you and the company just as any respectful relationship you may have. Seriously, on your part it's more about the people you chose to surround yourself with. If it don't feel right after pressuring the company about who they are then carry on or suck it up and make an adventure of it. Don't bring the drama on when you in it, instead get entertained and laugh about it. There is no sense in arguing about what is right or wrong. Man, we are all in these bubbles bumping into each other sharing experiences and sometimes it is like pulling teeth to get to what is really being said. You were real in your post and I knew I had to get under someone's skin in order to pull out a detailed experience in this thread. It makes it worth reading and in turn I shared mine here with you.

when they ask...well I worked here for almost a year here then to here and there for three years...But look, this is my last log book entry way before. Sure, my flight reviews are there. Maybe the FAA knows how much time I have? By the way...are fridays the best day of the week over here?

I don't know about you but if Fridays are good days for the people to surround yourself with then their heart just isn't in it anymore, sadly. Anyways, great post and thanks for sharing (I'd click the like link but I'm jealous of my only 6, lol).
 
splash said:
I bet next time it will be an adventure for him because it is better than sitting on his arse. So, what is your story?
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No, quite objectively, it would have been better had he sat on his ass. $4k better, and you can have one hell of an adventure on this planet for 4k in cash. Forking it over to some pos airplane company doesn't even remotely qualify.
 
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z987k said:
No, quite objectively, it would have been better had he sat on his ass. $4k better, and you can have one hell of an adventure on this planet for 4k in cash. Forking it over to some pos airplane company doesn't even remotely qualify.
Click to expand...

I wish we could be segregated and see which mind set advances for the better of everyone, yours or mine. Your mindset depresses people. Think about it! I think you should sit on your ass all day and tell me what joy that brings to you if you feel to believe you have any meaning in life. Woops, you have meaning...dolla dalla, ya eard?Appetite running wild. It leads to social problems among us as a community. MC Escher would have sat on his ass and done nothing if the money wasn't there? Ah, that is depressing isn't it? A man with that much talent sits on his ass and does nothing because he read some poor advice on an art website! Sorry, zoom out and make sense.

Maybe he did have an adventure for the 4k, does it matter what pos company he sent it too? What...the Yacht Club? Hollywood vacation? a night in Beverly Hills or on the Vegas strip? or maybe to the 121 liner you fly for?!

Still, there are companies out there that do pay for training and really suck to "work" for.
 
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splash said:
I wish we could be segregated and see which mind set advances for the better of everyone, yours or mine. Your mindset depresses people. Think about it! I think you should sit on your ass all day and tell me what joy that brings to you if you feel to believe you have any meaning in life. Woops, you have meaning...dolla dalla, ya eard?Appetite running wild. It leads to social problems among us as a community. MC Escher would have sat on his ass and done nothing if the money wasn't there? Ah, that is depressing isn't it? A man with that much talent sits on his ass and does nothing because he read some poor advice on an art website! Sorry, zoom out and make sense.

Maybe he did have an adventure for the 4k, does it matter what pos company he sent it too? What...the Yacht Club? Hollywood vacation? a night in Beverly Hills or on the Vegas strip? or maybe to the 121 liner you fly for?!

Still, there are companies out there that do pay for training and really suck to "work" for.
Click to expand...
Are you 4 years old or just high?
 
One day we will look back and ask ourselves what we did and what for. You know those hard luck stories your father or grandfather would tell you about having to walk to school or work in the snow? They still exist today, MC Escher, just in a different way.

If you went to the doctor and he told you a week to live...Would success mean how much money you made or had? Or would it mean what actions you did in your lifetime to help anyone you came in contact with? Does it matter how much material you now have? Does it drive you to gain more material or money knowing you have 7 days left here? Ya know, the true bottom feeders (most lawyers) should have this epiphany just before they start law school. As long as it's not their life, most could not care less and you know what their going rate is. OK, I puked now.
 
splash said:
One day we will look back and ask ourselves what we did and what for. You know those hard luck stories your father or grandfather would tell you about having to walk to school or work in the snow? They still exist today, MC Escher, just in a different way.

If you went to the doctor and he told you a week to live...Would success mean how much money you made or had? Or would it mean what actions you did in your lifetime to help anyone you came in contact with? Does it matter how much material you now have? Does it drive you to gain more material or money knowing you have 7 days left here? Ya know, the true bottom feeders (most lawyers) should have this epiphany just before they start law school. As long as it's not their life, most could not care less and you know what their going rate is. OK, I puked now.
Click to expand...
I've met far more bottom feeders who were clients than those who were lawyers. The lawyers who were • have stood out mostly because they were so unusual. Not that many people want to put in the high study hours and intense mental focus, or the 80+ hour work weeks, for a job that doesn't guarantee financial success. Most go into it with three characteristics. Intelligence, verbal aggressiveness, and a desire to make things better (or put another way, law students are typically smart loudmouths with social consciences). Even top-ranked law students feel this way - the involvement of very high-end law firms in pro bono activities is not as much about good marketing as it is something forced on them by the best job candidates who, after the insist on it as a conditions of giving up their personal lives .

I can understand the puking - listening your yourself can do that.

BTW, I agree with absolutely everything else in this post.
 
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