United's Confidential Business Plan Here

A320_DUDE

Well-Known Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

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I hate to say this, but the worst thing that anyone can do is wish that alot of people to lose their jobs for your personal gains. So it would be easier for you to get a job.

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I don't wish to see ANY airline employee lose their jobs! But United is dragging down the rest of the industry.....that is a sad fact. Yes....they were once the industry leader,but now they are an albotross around everyone's neck. It's now time for the vulture's to stop circling and start picking off the most profitable parts of the corpse.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

Here's the thing I don't think you get: those airplanes are not going to disapear. They are going to be eaten up by other company's. Then they will need pilots to fly those planes, and they'll probably take those United pilots with the equipment. That means no job for you, and no job for me.

Also, don't blame the pilots for managments mistakes. If you believe that pilots always have to go with managment then I imagine you'd say they shouldn't strike, like that Comair strike that happened a little while back when they would not go back to work for nearly 3 months. But don't you want to fly at a regional or a national instead of a major? Those guys certinally were not working with managment, but that strike was nessecary.

I wouldn't let your views out during an interview 737_Dude, because it's people like Doug that will interview you for your job, and you can see where he stands.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

kansaspilot

New Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

I am not saying that united absolutly needs to stay, but what is plauging united is also plauging other carriers. If united did go down it would free up the market a bit, but it still isnt a cure for the same problems at the other airlines. I think that they have all gotten to big to truly support themselves. Some streamlining in needed throughout the system. If Ual does pull through it could be used as a model on how to rise from the ashes. But who is to say that UAL is not going to be a repeat of Pan AM and TWA. Regardless I think whatever United does, it may be a roadmap on how other carriers could avoid the same fate. United going down is not going to be the solution to other carriers problems. It will be a major part of a solution, but carriers are going to have to rethink how to avoid the same problems. It is clear that most passengers(except business) are wanting a low fare, no frills trip. They just want to get there and they could care less about whats the meal. Passengers on a whole are just cheap. United is not helping by dropping fares. I cant say I wouldn't do it myself if I was trying to keep a company alive.
 

naunga

New Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

You know looking at this "plan" and reading the recent article in Flying about regionals, I've begun to wonder if the regionals will replace the "majors".

My thinking is that an ERJ-145 being used by CoEx for example has a range of 1590NM. A trip from CLE->IAH is 947NM.

So the ERJ-145 could go another 643NM. A coast to coast flight from LGA->LAX is roughly 2139NM. So you'd have to stop in between, but most people flying (IMHO) usually make one connection to their destination. Now granted a region jet is not going to go over seas, but bear with me here.

A while back Boeing was working on a new super jumbo jet, but after doing some market research they found that the industry was not interested in a new gigantic jet, but in a smaller and faster jet. I guess the thinking was that if you can buy a bunch of smaller jets then you can move the same amount of people in the same amount of time.

Also a super jumbo like they were proposing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The thing was so honking huge that it would have required Boeing to do some major retooling on the manufacturing side of things, and the airlines that wanted to use them would probably need to have the airports they would serve with it to do some major improvement.

So with all the retooling of manufacturing facilities and airports the cost probably would have been majorly prohibative. So it just makes more sense to get a smaller jet that can use the existing infrastructure.

Anyhow, so that all tells me that bigger jets are not the wave of the future, and in fact apart of international routes I wonder if hoping a 737 or 757 for a trip from
CLE to DFW (for example) is going to become a thing of the past.

Also living in a post 9/11 world I wonder if the public would feel safer (not necessarily be safer) knowing that fewer 757's are going to be flying coast to coast.

So I would foresee the guys flying the heavy iron getting put on a few coast to coast runs, but mostly international routes. With the RJ's becoming the "everyday" planes used by the airlines.

Sorry for the rambling nature of thing message, but I'd be interested in hearing what you guys think.

BTW does a 717 qualify as a RJ?

Cheers.

Naunga
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

A 717 is not an RJ. A 717 is on par with an MD-88 or a DC-9-50.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

A320_DUDE

Well-Known Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

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Here's the thing I don't think you get: those airplanes are not going to disapear. They are going to be eaten up by other company's. Then they will need pilots to fly those planes, and they'll probably take those United pilots with the equipment. That means no job for you, and no job for me.

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Call me hard headed but I still believe that us "rookies" will still have a fair shot at the Big Show even with UA pilots on the street.

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Also, don't blame the pilots for managments mistakes. If you believe that pilots always have to go with managment then I imagine you'd say they shouldn't strike, like that Comair strike that happened a little while back when they would not go back to work for nearly 3 months. But don't you want to fly at a regional or a national instead of a major? Those guys certinally were not working with managment, but that strike was nessecary.

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John,please....please don't say that the United pilots did not have a hand in the smoking hole known as United Airlines:2003. I'm not saying that they are totally to blame but come on,they were hand in hand with mangement to create this mess. The CMR pilots had a totally different situation. Would you want to fly a CRJ with a starting pay of 18k with substanderd benifits and retirement pay? Didn't think so. When CMR management would'nt listen to their demands,the pilots walked. I'm not saying that you should be a mangement "yes" man but when your company is teetering on the edge of solvency,full pay until the last day should be your last concern. Your also right John....I want nothing to do with a major airline job (and I don't want to disuade anyone who wants one). If I retire after 25-30 years at Comair,CoEx,Southwest,or JetBlue.....I'll retire a very happy man.

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I wouldn't let your views out during an interview 737_Dude, because it's people like Doug that will interview you for your job, and you can see where he stands.

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John....I'm really not a bad guy. Yeah maybe a little too harsh,but that's because I deal with NYC passengers 5 days a week!
I really don't want to see anymore people furloughed but if it's at the expense of my friends at US,CO,F9,B6,FL,and SW....then I'm sorry to say:( in a really bad british accent) United...you are the weakest link,Good Bye!
 

lizardking

New Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

I’m amazed by the number of finger pointing/whining/armchair economist/pilots in these forums and flight students in general. Times aren’t easy. Virtually every industry has been hit by the economic slowdown. There is no purpose in blaming it on politics or MBA’s.

Everyone has a purpose in society. MBA’s shouldn’t tell pilots how to fly planes and pilots, (thank goodness) don’t make economic policy. At least that’s how it’s supposed to work. A few years back there was a groundbreaking development at UA (maybe you heard about it). They became employee owned and managed. Great move huh? They are burning money 11 times faster than their MBA-run counterparts.

If United goes down, there will be a glut of highly qualified, newly humbled pilots in the market. This will mean more competition for jobs & lower compensation overall. End of story.

You don’t need an MBA understand basic economics. One of the cardinal rules is to keep politics out of economic policy (hence the Fed, Greenspan & Co.). Markets determine economic performance, not presidential economic agendas. I have no idea what “safety net” has been swiped from the middle-lower class. Consumerism does play a large part in our economy, but contrary to Aloft’s statement, retail spending will not pull us out of our slump. THE DRIVE OF OUR GDP IS CAPITAL SPENDING. Many of our largest companies are sitting on piles of cash and options for cheap money. They are WAITING for a sign of stability, not for Joe-Blow to use his “safety net” or whatever to buy a burger and a toy. This stability cannot be reached until Saddam and the MF Terrorists are destroyed.

I am not a Republican or a Bush lover, but he does understand his role in the economy. Which is to provide stability/protection. As soon as we get the geopolitical situations stabilized our economy will turn around. I really believe that. It’s too bad we have to fight wars, but if we don’t stand up to these threats they will consume us.

I apologize for getting too preachy. But there is too much wishful thinking and scapegoating going on here. Aviation is tough, deal with it, or move on. And just because MBA’s usually don’t speak intelligently about the aviation profession doesn’t mean pilots have act the same way.
 

av8sean

New Member
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

Even if UAL goes under, most of their pilots won't be competing for regional jobs. Southwest and Jetblue perhaps. Most UAL pilots will make more off of the money market interest from their portfolios and unemployment then at a regional airline.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: United\'s Confidential Business Plan Here

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I'm amazed by the number of finger pointing/whining/armchair economist/pilots in these forums and flight students in general.

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A few years back there was a groundbreaking development at UA (maybe you heard about it). They became employee owned and managed. Great move huh? They are burning money 11 times faster than their MBA-run counterparts.
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You don't need an MBA understand basic economics. One of the cardinal rules is to keep politics out of economic policy (hence the Fed, Greenspan & Co.). Markets determine economic performance, not presidential economic agendas.

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