SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Your perception of how labor contract negotiations works is simply wrong. Take it from someone who has actually been responsible for negotiating them.
United to Buy ExpressJet?
- Thread starter Zidac
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Your perception of how labor contract negotiations works is simply wrong. Take it from someone who has actually been responsible for negotiating them.
Which side of table were you on again?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You really don’t see the irony of you, a non-union pilot, accusing me, a former ALPA national officer, of being an airline management stooge, do you? That’s kinda funny, actually.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Trying again simplier: I don't think they'd successfully negotiate anything better (judging from total compensation)than what management is going to give them as they'll need to attract more pilots. Current union pilot groups are more likely to get increases on all fronts because theyve already established a negotiating relationship.
However I'd love to see skywest prove me wrong.
I wasn't accusing you* of being a stooge. Unlike you, I tend to not make assumptions about people I don't know.
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Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Just curious, how many labor contracts votes, or Skywest versions of one, have you been through?
Why?
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
I’ve been an ALPA member for 22 years and only voted in 5 contract or LOA votes. Some were YES and some were NO the first time. You said you always vote NO the first time. Just wondering how many times that was.
I don’t always see eye to eye with ATN, and he can come across as condescending, but he does make valid points as to contract negotiations.
I agree he does make great points. I respect the work NC's do. They represent an entire group, sometimes thanklessly, to do what they feel will benefit the pilot group the most. I opine that management is very effective at hiding how much it is willing to move on certain language. That's all.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Being on an NC is a thankless task. There are numerous examples of management lowballing, ie Delta’s last contract. TA2 was a better deal. The NO vote was the correct call
Then there’s the example of the joint TA during the merger. The north guys voted NO, the south guys voted YES. Management then split the negotiations and the north guys got a worse deal the second time. Clearly, the YES vote was the correct call.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
Contract negotiations in progress, NC gets a better deal than they thought they would, so they get out of the meeting, TA in hand, to address the pilots
"We negotiated a great deal. More money than we were asking for, better retirement contributions, and we only fly on Wednesdays"
There's this awkward silence instead of the round of applause, then one pilot raises hand - "You mean EVERY Wednesday??"
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
None of that is really responsive to my post that you originally responded to, which was saying that there is a whole lot more to a union than simply negotiating pay and work rules. You keep focusing on the contract. That's only a small portion of what ALPA does.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
Last time a similar anti-OO rant started I said I was happy I drove to work and could ski on my days off. I got absolutely blasted on here.
Don't worry I voted NO!!!
How dare you state you're happy at work, you kool-aid drinking fool!!
Hammertime
Well-Known Member
@ATN_Pilot is right. As an ALPA negotiator that has been doing this for four years, I'm honestly burnt out, mostly because of attitudes such as yours @matthew
I sit at the table with the company, trade multiple proposals back and forth, work for weeks to get that .25 credit for vacation pay. Put up with the company lawyer's boorish behavior. Achieve some major gains in the end. Then, I got out to present it to the pilot group and get this:
"But did you think about X?"
"Yes. Yes, I did, and we weren't able to achieve that because of Y."
"Well what about W? Why don't we have that? Company B has it?"
"...*sigh* Because we have Z."
"Well, it sounds like a good deal, but I'm going to vote no anyway. You never vote yes on a first contract. Thanks for all your hard work!"
ME: *Thanks for all my hard work!?! Your no vote throws months of my hard work in the trash! What the fudge!*
I see what you're saying. And I can see why you think your effort is wasted. But it's not. It's simply a way for some of us who think the company is holding back to offer more. Clearly this isn't in line with the majority of skywest pilots. And I'm ok with that. The whole reason I put my opinion out there is because I like to have these conversations.
Especially considering the student council is paid for by the company...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Yeah, bro is right. I've had the same job and I can assure you we work ourselves into the ground to make sure YOU have the best deal. It's your right as a union member to vote it down, but if you think you can do a better job, PLEASE volunteer. We need all hands on deck most the time, and it's a membership driven organization.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Ok, fair enough. It seemed to me we were talking about pay but i may have read into that. For me, it's is often about pay.
Having a union of any sort is leagues better than not having one. Obviously I'm biased, i think ALPA sets the bar.
Where did I say I could do a better job? Where did I attack union volunteers or their effort? This is why I don't say much on here. Because the lot of you think everything's an argument. You think you're talking to a union hater and you're not. I simply believe pilots deserve not to get screwed. But we are our own worst enemies sometimes and this thread proves it.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Me: Im going to vote no because this thing is going to pass anyway and it is important the company know some of us expect more.
You: more? How much more? You came here for less, what were you shooting for?
Me: More man, just more. I want to be paid like mainline, we do the same job.
You: Ok. No I see what you're getting at. *you walk away like ur suppose to but you stop and turn, overcome by lack of sleep and dread, anger rising* why don't you just goto mainline then?
Me: ive got it good here. I aint leaving until ready.
You: i dont know what i expected.
*the part of Me is not me it is someone else but i don't wanna throw a name on there because someone will say, "hehe, i know that guy". We all know that guy. He's weird.