Unions and Pay

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stuckingfk said:
I just find it funny to see a Mesa guy arguing pay when he/she knows his pay is near the bottom. I guess ALPA has really helped him.
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It is because my pay is so sub-standard that I try to be knowledgable about the situation and it is also why I volunteer -- although I do happen to make more than (or the same for flying a larger version of my own plane) as CommutAir and Lynx who are non-union. I'm happy for you that Jerry Atkin is less of a megalomaniac that my CEO.
Maybe ALPA can turn us and CommutAir around. Its certainly better than the absence.
 
ppragman said:
Are you looking for an argument? Look, I know you don't like me, and I know you think I'm a bad pilot or whatever, but lay off dude, its six in the morning here (maybe seven where you're at). I don't fly jets, woopdi do. Does that make me less of a man in your eyes? Does that mean I'm somehow less capable. You were a training captain at amflight, and an xJet FO. Now I "had it too easy when I was flying the Beech 1900," is that what you're getting at? Is that what you're trying to say when you were on autopilot in the CRJ (or whatever at XJET) and I had 4 inches of ice on the wings, descending out of the flight levels to shoot the ndb into dutch harbor. If you want to compare quality of experience and difficulty, we can do that, but not here, not now, and not on this abortion of a thread I started. Later.

-pat
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Only if you think the 1900 is a hard airplane to fly. It's not, it's an incredibly easy aircraft to hand fly; the conditions that you fly a 1900 are the challenging thing about the aircraft. You can't get above the weather in it, and that's where it takes skill to fly that aircraft; but it certainly isn't in hand flying it.

The EMB-145 is easy to manage, in my mind, but it hand flies like you're trying to balance yourself on a basketball that's 100' behind you once you have flaps 45 out.

Am I trying to compare sizes with you? No, I'm simply saying your original assertion is false.

Enjoy blowing up at whoever your next target is.
 
AMH said:
And many of us did steep turns to earn our pilot's licenses in a Cessna.. Not really a big deal.

You're going to offend more and more people with the direction you are taking this. I'm glad you like you're job. I like mine, too. But don't denigrate my profession and multiple other's to fulfill you're attention deficit. This is not the first time, either. You have belittled other jobs at the drop of a hat numerous times in the past. My advice is to stop and try listening more than talking ####. I was the same way at your age. Then I grew up a little.

Enjoy your job. It should be fun. And enjoy not working. That should be more fun. That's whats important to me. Go get some eskimo tail, and when you finally do, give me a call. I'll come up there and buy you a shirley temple.

You wanted a civilized conversation, so keep it that way.
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Yes, I am the bad guy, look, I am just calling it the way I see it, you're the ones who think the airlines are so perfect. Nor was I the one to start talking ####. All I said is that saying the standards are "exemplary and nothing less" is ridiculous. The standard is just that, the standard, I'm not trying to compare sizes here on the forum, but that's what it got turned into.

When have I belittled other jobs?

You don't even know me.

Wow, just wow.
 
Bro I think you need to take a break from this website for the rest of the morning, all you're gonna end up doing is pissing off more people and raising your blood pressure. And take it from somebody to knows how to piss people off, I've turned it into an art form.
 
The EMB-145 is easy to manage, in my mind, but it hand flies like you're trying to balance yourself on a basketball that's 100' behind you once you have flaps 45 out.
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Well its gotta be hard to fly with those spikey antlers things you call a yoke! ;)
 
jtrain609 said:
Bro I think you need to take a break from this website for the rest of the morning, all you're gonna end up doing is pissing off more people and raising your blood pressure. And take it from somebody to knows how to piss people off, I've turned it into an art form.
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Yeah you did pretty well this morning. I'm leaving the general forum, its useless, any question immediately turns into a firefight, you said it was easy to drive the cessna around (something you don't know a damn thing about when it comes to 207s) then I reply "its easy to drive airplanes with autopilot around too" and then here comes the ####storm. If you people are so insecure with your flying that that becomes a point of contention, I'd recommend you find something that gives you more of a sense of fulfillment than that. Later. I'm history, gotta go to the gym.

-pat
 
zmiller4 said:
How on earth can you claim to know that?
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ALPA's Economic & Financial Analysis department keeps a constant tally on the calculated W2 earnings from pretty much all carriers. Everything in the agreement is taken into account, including retirement contributions, profit sharing, work rules, etc...

zmiller4 said:
It should be no surprise at all that a study of a non-union airline's pay and benefits by an organization *attempting to organize at that airline* would show that it's not as lucrative a place to work.
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That would only be a valid conspiracy theory if we had actually tried to use the report as a way to organize you. As you've already mentioned, we didn't.

jtrain609 said:
I'm sure Todd could provide you with the study if you're interested in it.
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Unfortunately, I can't. These studies are done internally and are only for use by MECs and other officials within the Association. I'm sure ALPA E & FA would be happy to provide him with a report, but he'd have to pay one hell of a pretty penny for it. :) ALPA E & FA ain't cheap on a contract basis.

stuckingfk said:
I just find it funny to see a Mesa guy arguing pay when he/she knows his pay is near the bottom. I guess ALPA has really helped him.
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ALPA just got him a new TA with a bunch of improvements, actually, including more days off, higher pay, and better work rules. What has SAPA gotten for you?

ppragman said:
By the way, have you? Except for takeoff the first five minutes, then landing, I really doubt it.
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Ever heard of an MEL? I refused to fly the CRJ without an autopilot on legs longer than 45 minutes or so, but I've flown it with a deferred autopilot on the shorter flights. Don't assume that the autopilot is always working.
 
Well I mean having hundreds of hours in Cessna's, then hundred of hours in "light" twins, then some time in the plane that evetually turned into yours, and then having a tiny bit of time in a jet, I mean it'd seem that I'd at least had a sampling of what you were talking about.

But hey man, you keep on keepin' on.
 
ALPA just got him a new TA with a bunch of improvements, actually, including more days off, higher pay, and better work rules. What has SAPA gotten for you?
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Sorry, don't work there. Care to say anything else ignorant today?
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
Well its gotta be hard to fly with those spikey antlers things you call a yoke! ;)
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I went from a traditional yoke (737) to the rams horns (E145) back to traditional yoke (717, 757, 767). I actually like the rams horns better for hand flying except during an extreme x-wind. But, you do feel like you are flying a Big-Wheel with them. :)
 
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