ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Well, after reading how quickly the Go-Jet thread turned into a troll fest, I wanted to try to have a civilized discussion about the merits of unions in aviation. First, let it be known that I'm pro-union. I wish my company had a union, but we'd have to be a lot bigger for it to really matter.
There is one thing, despite the myriad good reasons for unions, which really really bothers me, and if someone with more experience in the matter (PCL here's your que) could enlighten me a little I'd be much obliged. Why is it that FOs at even good union companies get paid so little? I was looking at the TransStates page on APC, and you only make $25/hr after your off probation pay. What's with that? I know apprentice electricians in IBEW who are making $35/hr their first year, and getting a lot more hours, and they're not responsible for other people's lives. This just doesn't make sense to me.
Even Horizon, which is really good pay in a regional sense, only pays $32/hr for an FO after a year in the Dash (Though CRJ700 guys do pretty well, they make $42/hr). Irregardless, this is equates to about $40k per year or so at the guarantee at CRJ700 pay. For most companies however, there is straight up poverty pay for the first couple of years, and your QoL sucks.
Balance this with the fact that if you wait 7-8 more months (if you're a 500TT guy instructing or something and need to get to 1200) you can go to work for a non-union company like Flight Express, or AirNet (before they stopped hiring) and make good wages and fly PIC. Further, there are companies out there like Martinaire, and a few others that will put you right into the left seat of a Caravan or something turbine at 1200TT. Down the road (3000-5000TT) if you want to go into something bigger you have 2 choices, you can take a pretty hard pay cut by going to a union company, or you can go to a place like Virgin America (non union) or some other and make decent money in the right seat and still have pretty decent benes.
If a guy working freight or charter or something, decided he wanted to go airline, chances are the guy would have to take a $20,000 pay cut or so to do it. If someone wanted to go fly the eskimo jet (Alaska Airlines) and assuming he was qualified and making $55/hr at a mom and pop 135 flying 1000hrs per year he would take a $20/hr pay cut to do so. Why is this the case?
There is one thing, despite the myriad good reasons for unions, which really really bothers me, and if someone with more experience in the matter (PCL here's your que) could enlighten me a little I'd be much obliged. Why is it that FOs at even good union companies get paid so little? I was looking at the TransStates page on APC, and you only make $25/hr after your off probation pay. What's with that? I know apprentice electricians in IBEW who are making $35/hr their first year, and getting a lot more hours, and they're not responsible for other people's lives. This just doesn't make sense to me.
Even Horizon, which is really good pay in a regional sense, only pays $32/hr for an FO after a year in the Dash (Though CRJ700 guys do pretty well, they make $42/hr). Irregardless, this is equates to about $40k per year or so at the guarantee at CRJ700 pay. For most companies however, there is straight up poverty pay for the first couple of years, and your QoL sucks.
Balance this with the fact that if you wait 7-8 more months (if you're a 500TT guy instructing or something and need to get to 1200) you can go to work for a non-union company like Flight Express, or AirNet (before they stopped hiring) and make good wages and fly PIC. Further, there are companies out there like Martinaire, and a few others that will put you right into the left seat of a Caravan or something turbine at 1200TT. Down the road (3000-5000TT) if you want to go into something bigger you have 2 choices, you can take a pretty hard pay cut by going to a union company, or you can go to a place like Virgin America (non union) or some other and make decent money in the right seat and still have pretty decent benes.
If a guy working freight or charter or something, decided he wanted to go airline, chances are the guy would have to take a $20,000 pay cut or so to do it. If someone wanted to go fly the eskimo jet (Alaska Airlines) and assuming he was qualified and making $55/hr at a mom and pop 135 flying 1000hrs per year he would take a $20/hr pay cut to do so. Why is this the case?