Union-Specific Sub-Forum??

[Seggy]

But not all segments of the industry are unionized.

Simply put, there's a time and a place for everything.

True, but shouldn't we be aware about the other segments of the industry and educate others on what to expect.

A big difference in knowing procedures on an FMS and knowing you will deal with unions day one of ground school and the issues they are fighting.

For example isn't it important for guys to know what is going on with the TSA/GOJET situation so they don't put themself in a bad position?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

My opinion can't be changed - my vote is in.

 

[Seggy]

My opinion can't be changed - my vote is in.

And that is noted.

But, your opinion about this subforum hurts what we are trying to do at Colgan and this industry.

If you don't like what you are reading, why don't you PM the person and tell them to tone it down?

 

[surreal1221]

I agree. I'd say that over 95% of unionized pilots are airline pilots. Freight Dawgs and Flight Instructors, for the most part, could care less about the unions. It gets pretty old when every thread about an accident or procedure becomes a union promotion or a union bashing session.

Simply put, there's a time and a place for everything.

Student Pilots, and those who aspire to be professional pilots in a unionized industry should begin their professional career education NOW, before entering the 121 game.

www.clearedtodream.org

Brought to you courtesy of ALPA, those horrible meany heads.

Otherwise we have brained washed kids with Management degrees who have been taught for the past four years of their formal education that unions and pro-labor initiatives are bad for the "free market," and that it is okay to say you'll work for less than your peers because then you'll succeed.

 

[Goonie]

Student Pilots, and those who aspire to be professional pilots in a unionized industry should begin their professional career education NOW, before entering the 121 game.

www.clearedtodream.org

Brought to you courtesy of ALPA, those horrible meany heads.

Otherwise we have brained washed kids with Management degrees who have been taught for the past four years of their formal education that unions and pro-labor initiatives are bad for the "free market," and that it is okay to say you'll work for less than your peers because then you'll succeed.

I think you're missing the sentiment of Lloyds post. He is not saying he wants to halt union talks on the forums,but the annoyance of every thread evolving into a pro-union/management bashing jerk off session.

Like this one.

 

[surreal1221]

If that's the case, then he is also part of the problem is he not?

We wouldn't want to call the pot calling the kettle black now would we?

This thread didn't evolve into a union thread, it began as a union thread. Started by an individual who thinks there are too many union threads occuring. How ironic.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

If that's the case, then he is also part of the problem is he not?

We wouldn't want to call the pot calling the kettle black now would we?

This thread didn't evolve into a union thread, it began as a union thread. Started by an individual who thinks there are too many union threads occuring. How ironic.

I did begin it as a SOLUTION thread, to try to solve the problem.

But, yes - I'll go along with your logic. I'm clearly trying to turn everything into a union debate with this thread.

Yeah . . . that's it.

 

[Goonie]

If that's the case, then he is also part of the problem is he not?

We wouldn't want to call the pot calling the kettle black now would we?

This thread didn't evolve into a union thread, it began as a union thread. Started by an individual who thinks there are too many union threads occuring. How ironic.

ahem...this reminds me of working with Jtrain.

He never said there are too many Union talks on the forums.

If the thread is titled "ALPA talks" or "Why unions are good" then if you're not interested than you just skip it.

When something is titled "Hey, how can I become an airline pilot?" the thread turns into a "if you work for X airline thats not represented by ALPA we are all gonna black list your ass" tailspin.

Sorry Lloyd I'll stop putting words in your mouth.

 

[surreal1221]

ahem...this reminds me of working with Jtrain.

He never said there are too many Union talks on the forums.

If the thread is titled "ALPA talks" or "Why unions are good" then if you're not interested than you just skip it.

When something is titled "Hey, how can I become an airline pilot?" the thread turns into a "if you work for X airline thats not represented by ALPA we are all gonna black list your ass" tailspin.

Sorry Lloyd I'll stop putting words in your mouth.

That's your view of the discussion.

There are numerous threads, many that are occurring on this forum with posts occurring today and yesterday that have non-certificated pilots asking about the profession and not all of them turn into this pissing match you speak of. There may be comments about trade unionism in the profession, but not to your exaggerated level of ridicule towards the good work performed by those who do stand up for the profession on a daily basis.

The profession includes EVERYTHING, the good, the bad, the ugly.

If you guys want to sugar coat things 100% of the time, then that's fine. But some on this forum, and I'm extremely thankful they are and were here, didn't sugar coat it for me and I think I've come out just fine knowing what was passed onto me by them.

That's my point. The good far outweighs the perceived negativity.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Sorry Lloyd I'll stop putting words in your mouth.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Brotha!

 

[surreal1221]

Well Lloyd, how about this.

I hope your initiative works the way you would like it to.

I'm off to bed, you boys have fun now.

 

[MusketeerMan]

A good idea Lloyd...but don't expect it to happen!! I suggested an FA forum here so they have a place to network, but it was shot down!! (I believe it was shot down because of the differences in FA's and their unions)

 

[surreal1221]

I suggested an FA forum a few months prior to your suggestion though MM.

Neener-Neener. . .Okay, bed time.

Good luck Lloyd.

 

[BCTAv8r]

I like the idea of a separate forum. Perhaps it could somehow be limited to members that actually belong to the industry (Anyone can view it but only airline pilots can post).

If not, the only way to combat the multitude of union threads is to start threads about other topics.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Absolutely horrible idea. It seems that Dough understands why this can't be separated out into a sub-forum, so hopefully your idea will wither on the vine.

 

[Goonie]

That's your view of the discussion.

There are numerous threads, many that are occurring on this forum with posts occurring today and yesterday that have non-certificated pilots asking about the profession and not all of them turn into this pissing match you speak of. There may be comments about trade unionism in the profession, but not to your exaggerated level of ridicule towards the good work performed by those who do stand up for the profession on a daily basis.

Really??

For Example (and I'm not accusing you of anything)

Johnny private pilot joins JC and decides to test the waters with a new post.

"How can I become an airline pilot"

9 times out of 10 here are the responses verbatim.....

"use the search function" (has nothing to do about unions, but a very annoying response"

"This is a crappy industry, you should think of a backup plan" (even though I'm an airline pilot and was in your shoes less than 6 months ago.)

"Make sure and work for an ALPA represented airline. (even though I don't)

"don't be that tool that carries a backpack or listens to an Ipod" (who cares)

"SJS is what brings the this industry down" (you had it at one point, everyone does)

"You know how much regional FO's make right?" (I do because i'm one myself and management told me before I signed the dotted line.)

"seniority is everything" (no its not, QOL is)

"you only have 250 hours dude! you have no business flying a jet" (even though I got a job with 300 hours)

"I work for the regionals so I can make it better for the people to follow" (hahaha...this is my favorite one.....BS!)


I just realized that most of my complaints have nothing to do with unions at all. Just a Makers on Ice rant.

 

[derg]

I like the idea of a separate forum. Perhaps it could somehow be limited to members that actually belong to the industry (Anyone can view it but only airline pilots can post).

If not, the only way to combat the multitude of union threads is to start threads about other topics.

Well here's the deal.

Without requiring some sort of (easily defeatable) litmus test, it's very difficult to create and "industry only" forum. I really don't want to get into the business of asking folks for credentials and crosschecking them with the FAA because that would require a lot of manpower which we really don't have.

I think the best way is to participate.

Let me speak very frankly. This might be a little raw because I'm a little loopy from screwing up my sleep cycle on this trip.

Some people absolutely bitch to no end about the website. However, when I click "show all posts by...", most of their posts have been negative, sarcastic and such, but then they write me an email or a PM about "Your website is negative, erase my posts, I'm gone forever!!!!!". Well, a whole freaking lot of their posts were negative! What have THEY said, or offered, positive? Hey man, I'm just the highway overpass and y'all are painting the graffiti. Sorry, I don't hate my job, I've had a "renewal" of sorts when I started flying international. I don't have any more or less opportunity than anyone else has on the website so if you're "in it to win it", improve your position. No one's going to hand you career satisfaction on a silver platter.

Conversely, inherently negative people bitch about the koombayah environment that the positive people are living in. Then they say insipid #### like "Oh, it's just a bunch of kids that don't want to hear the TROOF about the profession, I'm gone!!!111oneone". The truth according to who?!

And inverse of the converse, there are those that bitch about the negativity of the website and scream "inner circle! inner circle! if I'm not bitter about the profession, my input isn't welcome!"

So I ask, not directed at you Brian (fo sho!) or anyone in particular, but just a shot in the dark, what have YOU done to improve things? What insight are you providing? Remember, I'm just the highway overpass and you guys are the taggers with the spray paint. You all know what I'm trying to accomplish here and how many of you are helping foster that? Or how many just log on to bitch about things that are absolutely out of our control? How many volunteer? How many show up to meet 'n greets? Hell, how many of you talk #### about the website, exclaim how they're running off to otheraviationwebsite.com, only to come back, meld back in, rinse and repeat the cycle?

And on the other side, kool aid will give you a hangover nastier than mixing cheap beer with scotch chasers.

But what do we do?

"Dough, I want the new posts button to only show new posts that ***I*** care about!"

"Dough, what's up with the people that aren't like me that are on the forum?"

"Dough, I'm tired of the political threads in the lavatory (dude, it's not required reading!!! HellooOooOOo?!?)"

"Dough, I want that user on my ignore list, how do I do that?" quickly followed by "That thread don't make no sense!"

Come on folks, we're pilots. We're on the cool side of the locking cockpit door. Take personal responsibility. Foster the environment which you want to work in.

I ain't yo daddy.

If you're bitching, you're failing.

 

[Goonie]

Well here's the deal.

Without requiring some sort of (easily defeatable) litmus test, it's very difficult to create and "industry only" forum. I really don't want to get into the business of asking folks for credentials and crosschecking them with the FAA because that would require a lot of manpower which we really don't have.

.

Yeah, and industry only forum is too "you're not good enough to listen yet" and that's not what JC is all about.

I think aspiring "pro-pilots" do need to listen to all facets of the biz, but maybe not when their heads are still soft.

 

[derg]

Yeah, and industry only forum is too "you're not good enough to listen yet" and that's not what JC is all about.

Precisamundo.

That's it, right there.

Most of the guys that walk up to me in the terminal were once neophytes that enjoyed and appreciated the "level" environment that we have here at jetcareers and were able to learn a lot and appreciated the environment where they could learn and ask questions as prospective flight students and were able to grow with the site, whether they participate or not.

People gotta foster the environment which they wish to see. Most other aviation websites are "top down", but I think of us more of a collective/"stone soup" environment.

I'm not Bobby Freaking McFarrin with the "Don't worry be happy" chorus, I'm more like "OK, you have the stage, use it."

 

[ASpilot2be]

I personally think its a good idea. I come to this section to learn things on how to improve my flying through tips and tricks from people all through the industry. I dont come here to be told to bow down to this one union, and bash others.