UA Charging Obese People for Extra Seat

aloft said:
Gotta wave the B.S. flag here. It's not a privilege at all. It's a service, like having your clothes drycleaned.
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Services can be privileges. You aren't guaranteed to get your clothes dry cleaned. No dry cleaners is obligated to clean your clothes.
 
aloft said:
Gotta wave the B.S. flag here. It's not a privilege at all. It's a service, like having your clothes drycleaned.
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So?

Your dry cleaner isn't going to clean two suits if you only pay to have one cleaned.

If you use two hours of a lawyer's time, he's going to charge you for two hours, not one.

If you go to your local FBO and the instructor gives you two hours of instruction, you're going to pay for two hours of instruction.

Bottom line is that if you use two of something, you should expect to pay for that.

And if you don't, tough noogies. Drive.
 
The dry cleaner analogy probably isn't the best idea. Our dry cleaner charges different rates for the various sizes of comforters. One rate for a full-size and another rate for a king-size.
 
tonyw said:
So?

Your dry cleaner isn't going to clean two suits if you only pay to have one cleaned.

If you use two hours of a lawyer's time, he's going to charge you for two hours, not one.

If you go to your local FBO and the instructor gives you two hours of instruction, you're going to pay for two hours of instruction.

Bottom line is that if you use two of something, you should expect to pay for that.
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Ah but therein lies the rub: what the airlines are "selling" is transportation of a PERSON, not use of a seat, or cubic footage of space. It's the same as going to a movie; the ticket you buy says "ADMIT ONE". It doesn't say "use of one seat in the theater for 90 minutes", and neither do most Contracts of Carriage -- because carriage is based on the same ADMIT ONE basis. Also note that you don't hear of this problem in movie theaters because a) the seats are larger (also an arbitrary choice, same as the seats on airliners), and b) nobody gives a crap! If someone needs two seats, give 'em to them! Life is full of opportunity costs, deal with it.

Seriously Tony, I expect better logic and reasoning out of you!

Honestly, this thread is little more than fat-bashing. Grow up, people.
 
By making this rule airlines are no longer saying it is for the carriage of one person.

They are essentially selling seats by space. You must purchase a minimum space (one seat) And if you require more than the minimum space, you must purchase a second.

Contracts change.
 
By all means I'm not thin, and I'm not fat-bashing by any means, but if UAL sells 186 out of 186 seats, and only 185 people can get onboard because a passenger is taking up more than a single seat, I believe it's within their best interests to offer that specific passenger another less-full flight, if available, or the option to purchase an additional seat and remain on the flight. Just like if a mother had a (free to travel) "babe in arms" but plops down a car seat in your assigned seat and straps the child in.

"UAL is not mother-friendly! Charges for newborns!!!"

I've jumpseated and been offered the last remaining seat in the coach cabin once and that seat was next to the window by a passenger who spilled over about six inches into the window seat which I was offered. I had to option of going back to the cockpit, which I took, because the airline did their best to accommodate the passenger and he (a paying passenger) was going to be comfortable. Now if I had paid for that ticket and I was going to spend the next six hours to LAX shoehorned into the seat, I would be highly upset.

Airlines have a variety of different seating choices. More higher pitch and wider seats in first class, additional seat pitch in premium seating and exit rows, etc etc.

If you read it again very carefully, you'll see that UAL last alternative is to offer the obese passenger the opportunity to buy an additional seat, which is fair I believe.

Yes, some people take the opportunity to pick on obese people, absolutely. Generally, they're early 20's and (at the time) ectomorphic as I've unscientifically determined, just like if I mistakenly elbowed Kristie there's be some element of society that would wax poetic about interracial relationships and the stereotypical unquenched "rage of the black man".

But all that aside, UAL, amongst other similar airline's policies have made a fair policy decision to address a 'worst-case' scenario. Naturally, newspapers have to sell copy to please their remaining advertisers so obviously it is going to be written that "UAL is charging fat people DOUBLE! AAAAEEEEIIGH!" so it sells.
 
aloft said:
Ah but therein lies the rub: what the airlines are "selling" is transportation of a PERSON

Honestly, this thread is little more than fat-bashing. Grow up, people.
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Read the terms and conditions sometime then get back to me.

And if you think it's fat bashing to say those who use two of an item need to pay for it, so be it.

Furthermore, if someone says I expect better reasoning from you, I would expect that person to have actually read the post where I specifically said I don't give a damn why you take up two seats and gave a couple of examples of large individuals who are anything but fat.
 
tonyw said:
Read the terms and conditions sometime then get back to me.

And if you think it's fat bashing to say those who use two of an item need to pay for it, so be it.
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But that's just it: the airlines aren't selling an item, they're selling a service. That service happens to be point-to-point transportation of a person, period.
 
aloft said:
But that's just it: the airlines aren't selling an item, they're selling a service. That service happens to be point-to-point transportation of a person, period.
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Since they are selling transportation, and not a seat, you will have no problems with POS being placed in baggage then, right?
 
aloft said:
But that's just it: the airlines aren't selling an item, they're selling a service. That service happens to be point-to-point transportation of a person, period.
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Rug cleaners also sell a service, but you have to pay more for extra rooms/larger rooms.
 
darrenf said:
Since they are selling transportation, and not a seat, you will have no problems with POS being placed in baggage then, right?
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But, but.....the service they're selling includes a seat... ;) :D. :rolleyes:
 
From Deltas contract:

Passenger’s Conduct or Condition
Delta will not refuse to provide transportation to an individual with a disability, as defined in 14
C.F.R. § 382.5 and 382.31, based upon his or her disability, except as provided in Rule 35(G),
below. Delta will not refuse to provide transportation based upon race, color, national origin,
religion, sex, or ancestry. Subject to those qualifications, Delta may refuse to transport any
passenger, or may remove any passenger from its aircraft, when refusal to transport or removal
of the passenger is reasonably necessary in Delta’s sole discretion for the passenger’s comfort
or safety, for the comfort or safety of other passengers or Delta employees or for the prevention
of damage to the property of Delta or its passengers or employees. By way of example, and
without limitation, Delta may refuse to transport or may remove passengers from its aircraft in
any of the following situations:
1) When the passenger’s conduct is disorderly, abusive or violent.
2) When the passenger is barefoot.
3) When the passenger appears to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs.
4) When the passenger attempts to interfere with any member of the flight crew in the pursuit of
his or her duties, or fails to obey the instruction of any member of the flight crew.
5) When the passenger has a contagious disease that may be transmissible to other passengers
during the normal course of the flight;
6) When the passenger has a malodorous condition;
7) When the passenger is unable to sit in a seat with the seatbelt fastened;
8) When the passenger requires an onboard stretcher kit;
9) When the passenger’s behavior may be hazardous to himself/herself, the crew, or other
passengers;
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From Southwests site:

F. Comfort and Safety - Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any
point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:
(1)
Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is lewd, obscene, or patently offensive;
NOTE: Carrier will not refuse to provide transportation to a qualified individual with a disability solely because the individual’s disability results in appearance or involuntary behavior that may offend, annoy, or inconvenience crew members or other passengers.
(2)
Persons who are barefoot and over five (5) years of age, unless caused or necessitated by a disability;
(3)
Persons who are unable to occupy a seat with the seat belt fastened;
(4)
Persons who are unwilling to comply with seating requirements under Carrier’s Customer of size policy as specified in Article 15.G;
NOTE: Carrier’s failure to enforce or willingness not to enforce its Customer of size policy for a passenger traveling on a given flight does not preclude Carrier from requiring such passenger to purchase two seats on a subsequent flight.
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From Allegient:

Comfort and Safety – Carrier may refuse to transport or remove from the aircraft at any point any passenger in the following categories as may be necessary for the comfort or safety of such passenger or other passengers:
  1. Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent;

    NOTE: Carrier will not refuse to provide transportation to a qualified individual with a disability solely because the individual's disability results in appearance or involuntary behavior that may offend, annoy, or inconvenience crewmembers or other passengers.
  2. Persons who are barefoot (other than infants);
  3. Persons who are unable to occupy a seat with the seat belt fastened;
  4. Persons who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs;
  5. Persons who are known to have a contagious disease;
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It seems all these carriers can deny boarding based on the comfort/safety paragraph. Does buying a 2nd seat take care of the problem? I think it is open to broad interpretation, which is what they wanted I would guess.
 
aloft said:
But that's just it: the airlines aren't selling an item, they're selling a service. That service happens to be point-to-point transportation of a person, period.
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Try the "admit one" thing to sit in 1st class with economy ticket. I'm thinking that the more space you take up the more you are going to pay. Hence the reason why you get so much more room in 1st class.
 
aloft said:
Wow, did you major in oversimplification?

The issue, many suspect, is not just overeating and lack of exercise, but of the *kinds* of food people are eating. There was a CNN reporter who spent a month living on food stamps down in New Orleans just to see what it's like, and what he discovered is that for the poor, it is damn near impossible to maintain any semblance of healthy eating. CFIs and regional FOs subsisting on ramen can vouch for this.

But the issue, I think, revolves around the food manufacturing industry and the proliferation of high-fructose corn syrup, which is in everything from ketchup to bread. Use of high-fructose corn syrup in food manufacturing really took off in the 1970s, which, when combined with a major change in the FDA's dietary guidelines from the four food groups to the carb-heavy food pyramid, changed what people eat in an incredibly fundamental way.

There's waay more to it than diet and exercise, man. In 2000, I lost 70 lbs doing Atkins, eating bunless double quarter pounders, caesar salads and lots of eggs, while getting absolutely zero exercise. Conversely, In 2004-2006, I gained about 45 lbs despite 2 hr workouts 4 times a week, while not really watching what I ate. My mom has a thyroid disease called Grave's disease, so it's very likely I have some sort of thyroid deficiency myself, haven't had it checked to find out for sure. But I have a friend who had thyroid cancer and had her thyroid either removed surgically or destroyed by radiation therapy, who tells me that if your thyroid doesn't function properly, it doesn't matter how much you work out, you won't affect your metabolism in the slightest. Getting on the right dose of thyroid replacement drugs, and your metabolism will finally get under control.

Bottom line, when it comes to the human body, we know so little about how it really works than to make sweeping, naive statements such as those you're so fond of making.



See you in 10 or 15 years after your metabolism slows down, champ. We'll see what tune you're whistling then.
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Ah the american way...blame someone else.

You know what I hate just as much...screaming babies. There's gotta be something done about that.

=Jason-
 
CN94559 said:
so back to my water landing point, what happens in that case? Do they get two cushions? That just doesn't seem fair. That wont keep them afloat :D
:p
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The more fat you have on you the better you float right? Doesn't muscle sink and fat float? or something like that???? I know thats way off topic...:nana2:
 
For all the fatties :oout there bitchin' about the crap in food - there's always the organic isle. There's also healthier oils, butter substitutes, salt substitutes, etc. Heck, fake cheese tastes pretty good. Dairy = bad for you!!! Even you beanpoles, dairy=bad. At least go organic!
 
I am getting in this late, but I don't see a problem with charging very large people for an xtra seat. The problem comes in how do you do it? What defines overly big? Are they going to have to put a seat at the ticket counter to see if you fit in it, just like your carry on? I like the idea but I do see a lot of problems trying to apply it consistantly.

On another note, I do think the industry should start prohibiting lap children. While the intent is good, in an accident of severe turbulence the kid is just another projectile in the cabin. All kids under x age should be in car seats on the planes. IMHO
 
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