darrenf
resident denizen
When that happened to me, I adjusted my diet.
UA Charging Obese People for Extra Seat
- Thread starter ILSstud
- Start date
When that happened to me, I adjusted my diet.
ozone
Well-Known Member
Yup, I figured you would bold the rest....but I didn't want to muddy the waters too much.
I think the author makes the point that it's still people stuffing their fat faces that leads to the obesity. Aloft, your example of your mother is a good one, but the issue is multifactorial. Yes, some folks are genetically susceptible, but genotype does not necessarily mean you are stuck with your phenotype.
It's up to the individual as to how they would like various genes to express themselves. For example, there's plenty of people out there with familial hypercholesterolemia (i'm one of them for example). They can CHOOSE to eat nothing but big macs and dunkin donuts and die of a stroke or heart attack at a young age. OR, they can CHOOSE to eat healthfully and not send their cholesterol into the stratosphere.
The sentiment I get from reading the other posts is one which many people share. It's not fair, but it is EXTREMELY rare for genotype alone (or hormonal disruption alone) to cause obesity.
Therefore, fat people (not "heavy", not "gravity challenged", not "big boned"...just FAT!!!), need to admit that they share some responsibility for their obesity. I have run into my share of folks who just say they are fat, and i have to say, I have more sympathy for them than the people who refuse to acknowledge the bleeding obvious. I think, in regard to disability claims and the ADA and such, that there are people who deserve that kind of help when it can be proven that their issue is due to an uncontrollable medical problem. The problem that many people have with this, however, is that the majority of the time obesity is a self-inflicted problem. Your Adkins diet likely worked because that diet, properly followed, produces a serious calorie restriction and re-arranges the bacteria in your gut...both good ways to lose weight fast. But, ultimately, that diet is unsustainable.
As a passenger of average size, I have lately had the misfortune to sit next to someone obese on several flights, and it makes for a very uncomfortable 4-5 hours. Talk about armrest hogs! So, I am all for people having to buy more than one seat if they are going to impact other people's lives (even if it's "only" 4 hours).
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I wouldn't say oversimplification. The article says that their genes are part of the problem. The other part of what you bolded then went on to note that these people are now eating much more energy rich items and are not expending enough energy as before. Their genes allow them to build the fat faster, but in the end they arent doing anything to make up for the lack of activity that their grandparents or parents once had to cope with the gene.
How do we fix this problem? Eat better food and exercise a bit to make up for the lack of activity. Besides, the amount of obesity would not have grown so fast as a direct result of a gene.
With that said, your analogy would not work. Sure it may take 2 tables to serve 4 fat people, but they will eat as much as 8 normal people :buck:
pullup
Homewrecker
A choice
Ever been to a farmers market? $.49/lb for bananas. About $.50 an apple or orange. Lettuce = $1.49. Onion = $.99/lb. Shall I go on?
Agreed that foods took a major turn with the introduction of HFCS...but still a choice. You're an adult, choose wisely.
No, there really isn't. Stop making it harder then it has to be. Medical conditions like your moms or friends are the exception, not the rule.
That just seems plain stupid. Because of...
We know enough that eating a balanced diet of fruits/vegetables/lean meats and exercising properly, and getting enough rest will result in a healthy, non-obese body.
Already has champ. You think I have the metabolism of a 15 yr old? Noooooo way. What did I do when I noticed a paunch developing? *Gasp* Ate healthier and started working out and playing sports again. Shocker!!!! Stopped eating out/eating fast food. Exercise at least 6 times a week. Go for more walks with the kids. Make my lunches at home. Eat chicken, tuna, veggies, fruits, nuts, etc. Stay away from processed foods as much as I can.
aloft said:
I lol'd at this. Keep thinking the obesity/diabetes crisis is due to genes, ok?
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
And I couldn't care less. An air carrier my specify their own TOC. If obese are disabled, then they may not be seated in an exit row, so carriers can do nothing to assist them there. For that matter, if you can't fit out the exit, or are seated in such a matter that you will prevent others from reaching an exit, your disability is putting others at risk. If passengers cannot occupy a seat next to you for these reasons, then you should have to pay for the additional seat.
Should we add weight and balance to the issues? At my airline, each adult occupied seat is averaged at 175 lbs, if you need 2 seats, and buy 2 seats we get much closer to the actual weight here.
Look, your problems are yours. Do the right thing, buy the extra ticket and don't make them mine.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
You're right, fat people don't contribute anything to society.
oh... if in case you couldn't tell
.Try again skippy.
phoenix 23684
Well-Known Member
I agree that if the flight is full the fat individual should pay to use the two seats if they do not fit in one. I have also traveled in the middle seat with a large fellow of which 1/3 was on me. I felt bad for the individual because he was trying his best to not crowd me.
Also, we all know and can agree that the U.S. is facing a problem with obesity. Most of the people can lose the weigh if they really wanted to. Look at that show, The biggest looser, very impressive what some of these individuals can accomplish.
Our food industry is definitely part of the problem, look at how processed, hormone treated, genetically altered our food has become. None of these things can be good long term. I took a class while living in Europe and at one point we discussed the long term effects of these altered foods and the joke was that the US will let us know in a few years.
Forget all the crazy diets, there's a very simple formula; eat less than you are burning in energy. Self-control and more importantly taking responsibility for our own actions.
Also, we all know and can agree that the U.S. is facing a problem with obesity. Most of the people can lose the weigh if they really wanted to. Look at that show, The biggest looser, very impressive what some of these individuals can accomplish.
Our food industry is definitely part of the problem, look at how processed, hormone treated, genetically altered our food has become. None of these things can be good long term. I took a class while living in Europe and at one point we discussed the long term effects of these altered foods and the joke was that the US will let us know in a few years.
Forget all the crazy diets, there's a very simple formula; eat less than you are burning in energy. Self-control and more importantly taking responsibility for our own actions.
darrenf
resident denizen
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/lose.html<table border="0"><tbody><tr align="LEFT"><td></td> <td>LOSE/LOOSE
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>This confusion can easily be avoided if you pronounce the word intended aloud. If it has a voiced Z sound, then it’s “lose.” If it has a hissy S sound, then it’s “loose.” Here are examples of correct usage: “He tends to lose his keys.” “She lets her dog run loose.” Note that when “lose” turns into “losing” it loses its “E.”
i'm thinking he meant but didn't include "as a pilot" in his previous statement... if you're home 24/7, it's easy as pie to choose healthy choices...but when on the road, not quite so.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
US Airways had that policy. The armrest had to go all the way down. We'd get one or two "persons of size" (yes the actual term. Abbreviated POS on the loadsheet. You ever have a FA count on a not full flight with a POS they are unaware of and you're already late? I digress....) a year.
I actually had a gate agent test this. The individual was able to get the armrest down.
I agree with the size thing, however, saying it only applies to those that are obese is myopic. There are other "people of size" just as the PC label describes. (Good lord, did I just defend PC?...it won't happen again, I promise)
I actually had a gate agent test this. The individual was able to get the armrest down.
I agree with the size thing, however, saying it only applies to those that are obese is myopic. There are other "people of size" just as the PC label describes. (Good lord, did I just defend PC?...it won't happen again, I promise)
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
aaaweee....so sad.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
I would believe the "we don't know why its happening" if people in countries without a McDonalds every 15 feet were having the same "epidemic". We have become a country of sloths who want to blame everyone else for our problems instead of taking ownership and getting our things together.
Yes, there are some people who are naturally big...but that doesn't come close to describing most people. This debate comes down to passenger rights. Judging by your logic as to why this is wrong you must also believe that there should be no weight/size limits for luggage that is checked by passengers.
On a semi related note I had to delay a flight a few weeks ago because we had to have more seatbelt extensions delivered to the airplane.
tizzizzailslf04
Well-Known Member
WacoFan
Bigly
My position seems incompatible, but I am for treating the obese with dignity AND charging them extra for a seat on the airplane. Without knowing the cause of the obesity it is stupid and insensitive to judge - they may be one of the few in which obesity is not a matter of behavior. For that matter, many things can be assumed to be behavioral, but may not be - Lung cancer? Maybe a smoker, maybe a worker that never smoked and worked in asbestos. Aids? Unprotected promiscuous sex or drug use...or perhaps infected from nursing from an infected mom (Elizabeth Glaser's children) or a blood transfusion. It could go on like this. Without verifying the cause of a person's problem it is rude and presumptuous to assume - so the best course of action is to treat everyone with a dignity and respect that civil behavior demands. It has always baffled me why there is such hostility toward the obese. I understand that you may not like looking at them, and that you view them as slothful...but seriously, who cares what you think?
With that said, accommodations given to the disabled or physically challenged should accomodate...but not at the expense of people that have also paid full fair. If I pay for a seat, I want the entire seat. I don't get mad when I sit next to the obese and I don't feel it is a personal vendetta that they are obese just to screw me on my flight - they are simply sitting where they are told. I do get mad at the airline however because I want to sit in semi-comfort and not lose use of a portion of my seat and armrest and I wonder why they haven't instituted a plan like United just adopted.
Perhaps the answer is to charge less than full fare for the second seat. Maybe a flat "Fat-surcharge". Unless someone is 340 lbs, they are less weight than carrying two people - thus less fuel, less meals, less baggage, etc. The "Fat-surcharge" would be fixed and tacked on to the cost of the ticket which would fluctuate. I could see during a price war that the fat-surcharge could potentially be more than the ticket. Also, perhaps you could put the obese people in the same row - that way two people that each use one-and-a-half seats could sit together comfortably, and you could also put them somewhat far away from the exits so as not to block things in an emergency.
With that said, accommodations given to the disabled or physically challenged should accomodate...but not at the expense of people that have also paid full fair. If I pay for a seat, I want the entire seat. I don't get mad when I sit next to the obese and I don't feel it is a personal vendetta that they are obese just to screw me on my flight - they are simply sitting where they are told. I do get mad at the airline however because I want to sit in semi-comfort and not lose use of a portion of my seat and armrest and I wonder why they haven't instituted a plan like United just adopted.
Perhaps the answer is to charge less than full fare for the second seat. Maybe a flat "Fat-surcharge". Unless someone is 340 lbs, they are less weight than carrying two people - thus less fuel, less meals, less baggage, etc. The "Fat-surcharge" would be fixed and tacked on to the cost of the ticket which would fluctuate. I could see during a price war that the fat-surcharge could potentially be more than the ticket. Also, perhaps you could put the obese people in the same row - that way two people that each use one-and-a-half seats could sit together comfortably, and you could also put them somewhat far away from the exits so as not to block things in an emergency.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Maybe the airline should just charge a rate based on a person's, or piece of cargo's, specific fuel consumption.
Tie that to the spot price of JetA + a margin, and you'll have true pricing.
Just slide that credit card....
Honestly: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...84087A61B8FB9582862570220064E03C?OpenDocument
I wonder what our resident survey specialist (and, by a sketchy-at-best logic jump, statistician) thinks of the science laid out...
An excerpt for fun:
Tie that to the spot price of JetA + a margin, and you'll have true pricing.
Just slide that credit card....
Honestly: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...84087A61B8FB9582862570220064E03C?OpenDocument
I wonder what our resident survey specialist (and, by a sketchy-at-best logic jump, statistician) thinks of the science laid out...
An excerpt for fun:
aforementioned Appendix 2 said:
In a similar vein, out here, when I'm working my Fire Dept gig, if there's a medical call where the patient is highly obese....where they can't safely be put onto a gurney....the local Ambulance company has a bariatric ambulance. It's equipped with a crane that extends out from the top to life the person into the ambo for transport. Utiliztion of that ambo is infrequent, and when it does go out, the $$$ charge for it is higher than a standard ambo.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
You know, I don't give a rat's ass as to why you take up two seats. Is it because you have a medical problem? Fine. Is it because you sit around on your couch all day long and scarf down ding dongs and ho hos? Fine. Is it because you're a steroid freak who hopes to win Mr. Universe and whose veins have veins popping out of them? Your choice. Is it because you're an NFL lineman who can bench 225 40 times? Then what the hell are you doing back in coach, you can afford first class!
Who cares WHY you take up two seats?
If you take up two seats, pay for them.
The why is irrelevant.
The what is the thing that counts. You take up two seats. Pay for them.
If I go to a bar, and order one martini, I don't expect them to give me two for the same price. If I go to the ballpark and pay for one seat, I don't expect a second one for free.
So nobody should expect a second seat for free if they get on a plane. Take up two seats, pay for them. If you don't like it, drive.
Who cares WHY you take up two seats?
If you take up two seats, pay for them.
The why is irrelevant.
The what is the thing that counts. You take up two seats. Pay for them.
If I go to a bar, and order one martini, I don't expect them to give me two for the same price. If I go to the ballpark and pay for one seat, I don't expect a second one for free.
So nobody should expect a second seat for free if they get on a plane. Take up two seats, pay for them. If you don't like it, drive.
OhioStatePilot
Well-Known Member
I think this is the best thing I've heard in a long long time. Why is air travel treated like a commodity and a god given right? We're still a free market economy (sorta) and you, as the consumer, are more than welcome to vote with your dollars. If enough people redirect their money, the company will take notice and change or another airline will find an opportunity to capitalize on the loss. Air travel is a privilege -- not a right.
< /rant off >
aloft
New Member
Gotta wave the B.S. flag here. It's not a privilege at all. It's a service, like having your clothes drycleaned.