U.S. Airline Industry Headed Toward 'Catastrophe'

I just went almost coast to coast in a 777, then an airbus something-or other, sat in the jump BOTH ways because every seat in the back was full.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Links please. If you mean that the government wrote a profit because they were paid back in their own deflated funny-money, then uh, great. Regardless, what makes the legacies so special that I get to loan them money so they can lose some more while the guys at ATA get put on the street?
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Sorry, no links, it was in an AW&ST issue awhile ago if I remember correctly. Anyway, I think the main thing is that the post-9/11 bailout was a broad stroke, many many companies received financing. The legacies weren't the only ones who got money.
 
E_Dawg said:
I just went almost coast to coast in a 777, then an airbus something-or other, sat in the jump BOTH ways because every seat in the back was full.
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90 on the standby list for Delta couple days ago in DFW trying to get back to ATL. There was 77 on the list coming to DFW. Got back to ATL on Airtran thankfully....on the jumpseat:panic:
 
I take it you're abandoning your contention that it was all loans and the government "made money" on those loans. $5 billion in grants were given away last time around. Call it what it is: A tax to keep unprofitable companies in business. Everyone pays, some benefit.
 
kellwolf said:
Woah. 90 and 77 on the STANDBY list? Did a flight (or 3) cancel?
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nope:eek: I checked, every flight went out on time. The long list for the flight to Dallas was probably from a bunch of missed connections b/c the weather was bad in the NE. Didn't get on that one. The next flight was the last Delta flight into Dallas that day. 58 on the standby list. I said screw it and caught the midnight Airtran flight to Dallas.

Coming back to ATL I checked the flights the day before and the 12:10pm to ATL looked great. 40 seats open and less than 40 on the standby list. Show up to the airport the next day and there's 90 on the standby list, with a boatload of Delta pilots and FAs trying to commute also:banghead: So I rushed over to Airtran and got there first to grab the jumpseat. That flight was FULL. Gate agent said there was Delta buddy pass passengers that had been stuck in Dallas for 3 days trying to get out and tried to buy a ticket on Airtran but they were full too! Apparently the day before there was over 100 on the standby list. Summer's here!

BTW, I got MADD respect for anyone who does the DFW-ATL commute. I only go to DFW once a month so I can't imagine having to go through that headache every week.
 
tonyw said:
:yeahthat:

They're afraid that passengers will go to other airlines.

Well, with 80 percent load factors and with everyone cutting capacity, where are they going to go?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Someone's got to have the balls to say, screw it, I'm charging what I need to charge, and if you don't like it, good luck finding a seat on another airline because their planes are all full.

Inexpensive air travel is like inexpensive gas. It's not a constitutional right and people need to get that through their heads. Or they can take Greyhound.
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Yeah, like the others have the seats and capacity to do so.

I just can't understand how with 80% load factors these idiots can lose money!!!!
 
Kristie said:
could be that the airlines are afraid people will just stop flying altogether? the only loophole there is the price of gas to drive anywhere is just as high now.
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If I were the CEO of an airline, I'd say, I'm charging what it costs me to fly you somewhere and I'm going to add something so that I make a profit.

If you don't like it, take Greyhound. Oh, and I don't care if you hate me or if you'll fly someone else if you can. You ALREADY DO!

And then I'd say, and Greyhound will cost you x dollars and take five times as long, so you're welcome to them.
 
tonyw said:
If I were the CEO of an airline, I'd say, I'm charging what it costs me to fly you somewhere and I'm going to add something so that I make a profit.

If you don't like it, take Greyhound. Oh, and I don't care if you hate me or if you'll fly someone else if you can. You ALREADY DO!

And then I'd say, and Greyhound will cost you x dollars and take five times as long, so you're welcome to them.
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thats the attitude that would really bring in the customers :yup:
 
777forever said:
nope:eek: I checked, every flight went out on time. The long list for the flight to Dallas was probably from a bunch of missed connections b/c the weather was bad in the NE.
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They better check their arrival in less than 14 stats. Those guys might get cut! :)

Coming back from ORF this morning, ATC has us hold short of a taxiiway while NWA mainline got their flights out.....like 5 of them. So, we landed early and blocked in nearly 20 minutes late. Hope NWA doesn't hold that one against us Delta style.....
 
Will this bring around the advent of large scale Air Taxi services? (i.e. flying people around in light piston twins)
 
azpilot84 said:
Will this bring around the advent of large scale Air Taxi services? (i.e. flying people around in light piston twins)
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*snarl* Those little things? They SCARE me! Don't they just fall out of the sky when the engine stalls?

I want to fly on a REAL airplane!
 
I think you're going to continue seeing more and more foreign students showing up at US flight schools. The international pilot demand, coupled with the devalued dollar makes training here very attractive.

I worry more about those of us low time guys either looking to start an airline career, or about to be furloughed from the one they already started :(
 
thesoonerkid said:
thats the attitude that would really bring in the customers :yup:
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They hate the airlines already. So who cares what they think?

People hate gas companies, too, but they buy gas BECAUSE THEY NEED TO.

They aren't flying for the experience, or if they are, they are certifiable and shouldn't be flying because they're not mentally sane and should be in a straitjacket!

So charge them what you need to in order to make money, and tell them to take greyhound if they don't like it.

And tell them greyhound will charge more anyway.

Yes, I know what they say. The customer is always right. Bullcrap. The customer is very often wrong, and companies should not be afraid to tell them this if it is factually accurate.

Second, the other thing they'll say is they'll just flock to another airline. Oh yeah? And what empty seats will they find with airlines cutting capacity and load factors already in the 80s?
 
Exactly what Herb Kelleher says. We'll do everything we can for you, but if you abuse my employees, take your business elsewhere.
 
azpilot84 said:
How long before the 'Catastrophe' starts effecting schools?
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I'd say the more immediate problem flight schools are facing is the credit crunch. Currently there are no loans to be had through Flight Safety. The only thing keeping them going are contracts to train pilots from overseas.
 
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