Type 1 Diabetic Pilots for Equality
- Thread starter Evanmac3332
- Start date
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
I have decided that if or when I ever loose my medical, I will become the Dude from the Big Lewbowski.
All kidding aside, I'm sorry about your situation. I think this fight will be a waist of your time. Some of the FAA rules are not backed by science but I think this one probably is. Put yourself in the shoes of a paying passenger, I don't think it is fair to compromise their safety.
If being a pilot is what you want you are not completely SOL. Like others have said, study hard, get a good job, buy your own plane and fly as much as you want. When you carry passengers you can tell them of the situation and they can decide for their self if they are willing to fly with you.
Again I'm sorry this happened. I would probably do the same thing in your shoes. Good luck with whatever you do decide to do!
All kidding aside, I'm sorry about your situation. I think this fight will be a waist of your time. Some of the FAA rules are not backed by science but I think this one probably is. Put yourself in the shoes of a paying passenger, I don't think it is fair to compromise their safety.
If being a pilot is what you want you are not completely SOL. Like others have said, study hard, get a good job, buy your own plane and fly as much as you want. When you carry passengers you can tell them of the situation and they can decide for their self if they are willing to fly with you.
Again I'm sorry this happened. I would probably do the same thing in your shoes. Good luck with whatever you do decide to do!
highspeed
Well-Known Member
Ditto on the mil career. I think (and hope) I took it as far as I could. Did everything in HS to attempt an app at an accademy. Color vision. Went to Riddle, asked around and got nowhere. color vision. Got the FAA SODA under the old rules as well. Don't seem to have any issues when flying. But, there's still this nagging feeling that maybe I missed something, was there a test I could have passed, an exemption to policy that could have gone my way... who knows. Oddly, my color vision is (likely) the reason I'm here. And if I didn't have it, wouldn't be here anyway. [My g'pa was drafted in WWII and they were going to make him a tail gunner in a B-24...until they discovered he was cb. Became an aircraft mechanic instead. Who knows how things would have turned out...]
[/hijack]
In the end, BS in aero sci. Airline mgmt time. Now FAA contractor. I'd still like another chance at mil flying though, but to the OP go after what you want. Even if you come up a bit short it won't be all that bad.
Evanmac3332
New Member
I do not intend to sound ignorant here, and I am not saying that there are not problems and complications as a result of the diabetes. However, I do believe that it is time that the FAA review its moderatley outdated medical standards. I would love to be a CFI but I can not even acquire a class 2 license. I am restricted to a class 3 medical, in which I am perfectly eligible to fly on my own. I would love a job where I could just fly endlessly all day. That's mainly what I want. I don't want to pour thousands upon thousands of dollars into training just to own an aircraft that will never reap what I put into it. In other words, I want to fly an aircraft for a living.
While I understand passenger safety, I also understand that cargo carriers carry boxes, if that is all I could fly, that would be glorious to me. I don't care who or what is in the back of the jet. It can be a plane loaded full of jolly ranchers for all I care. I just want to make money at something I love doing. Yet, I can't even do that...
For some of the posters, you don't have to sound absolutely heartless, at least add a little happiness to your post. I've already been hit enough this year. Thanks. Just imagine if you couldn't fly because of something you had no control over...
Also this is an excerpt from the Canadian Medical 1 Requirement on Diabetes Mellitus:
"1.18 Proven cases of diabetes mellitus may be considered fit provided the certain specific control criteria are met. NOTE: These criteria are outlined in the Health Canada Document "Canadian Guidelines for the Assessment of Medical Fitness in Pilots, Flight Engineers and Air Traffic Controllers with diabetes mellitus 1995."
It is that word, "proven" that gets me.
*UPDATE: I did just call Transport Canada, and I can acquire a Class 1 Medical License, if I meet the criteria for Type 1 Diabetics."
While I understand passenger safety, I also understand that cargo carriers carry boxes, if that is all I could fly, that would be glorious to me. I don't care who or what is in the back of the jet. It can be a plane loaded full of jolly ranchers for all I care. I just want to make money at something I love doing. Yet, I can't even do that...
For some of the posters, you don't have to sound absolutely heartless, at least add a little happiness to your post. I've already been hit enough this year. Thanks. Just imagine if you couldn't fly because of something you had no control over...
Also this is an excerpt from the Canadian Medical 1 Requirement on Diabetes Mellitus:
"1.18 Proven cases of diabetes mellitus may be considered fit provided the certain specific control criteria are met. NOTE: These criteria are outlined in the Health Canada Document "Canadian Guidelines for the Assessment of Medical Fitness in Pilots, Flight Engineers and Air Traffic Controllers with diabetes mellitus 1995."
It is that word, "proven" that gets me.
*UPDATE: I did just call Transport Canada, and I can acquire a Class 1 Medical License, if I meet the criteria for Type 1 Diabetics."
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Colorblindness killed my childhood dream of going to the Air Force Academy. I had even gone to the summer session for potential applicants the year before, had a glowing recommendation from both my recruiter, and the House member I had interned for. Totally floored me. I thought I had mostly gotten over it, until I saw that scene in Little Miss Sunshine where the exact same thing happens to that kid. That set me into a pretty deep depression.
But I ended up having a great college experience elsewhere and live a pretty good life just flying for fun (when I was - recently sold my plane). It sucks, but it gets better.
But I ended up having a great college experience elsewhere and live a pretty good life just flying for fun (when I was - recently sold my plane). It sucks, but it gets better.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Please get a clue there hip-shot.
I've spent many hours in airplanes with diabetics at the controls and me out of reach of them.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Not to be an ass, but that is life and the sooner you find out about it the easier it is.
I wanted to be a Horizon pilot my whole life. Worked for the company on the ground and had to leave early meaning I could never be a pilot for them. Sucks but you move on. I'm not saying you have to stop your fight for trying to fly but unfortunately even the best of type 1ers still have their problems and if those come while you are flying you can't just pull over and fix it.
flyboywbl
3rd regional in 1 year
Sorry if I sounded insensitive.
You can be a CFI with a 3rd class medical. You need a commercial ticket with an instrument rating first but you can take the commercial (or ATP ride for that matter) with only a third class medical. If you do your ATP in a SIM you don't even need a medical. All you need the second class medical for is to exercise the privileges of a commercial pilot. As a CFI you are being paid to "instruct" not fly so you can sill fly all day and still get paid.
Though coming from someone who used to fly all day instructing, it took all of half a year to get burnt out on it and you don't make a lot of money either. What about choosing a different career and instructing on the side for local FBO or flying club? Heck some people will let a CFI fly their plane for free in exchange for the lower insurance premiums for said CFI being listed as the primary pilot.
msmspilot
Well-Known Member
Shows what I get for posting at the end of a 12 hr shift, when I should be going to bed.
I knew that somewhere in the deep recesses of my brain from when I had a student have that issue...
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
As I had thought:
Insulin Treated Applicants with Diabetes Mellitus (ITDM)
This group will include all Type I DM applicants and those Type II DM applicants who require insulin in addition to dietary management.
The major issue in this group, particularly in the Type I (IDDM) applicants, is assessing the risk of hypoglycemia. An attempt has been made based on the opinions of the diabetologists at the conference to classify low risk and high risk ITDM (see Table 1).
It is conceivable that an applicant who meets all the criteria to be classified as low risk could be considered for a Category 4 (ultralight/glider) or a Category 2 (ATC) medical certificate. (See Appendix I & II). All Category 2 applicants should be referred to the Senior Consultant, Operations in Ottawa prior to a medical certification recommendation.
Until data has been gathered from the Category 2 group (ATC) both in Canada and from other jurisdictions, applicants for Category 3 with ITDM will be considered unfit. An exceptionally low risk ITDM who already holds a Category 1, may be considered for medical certification restricted to "as or with co-pilot".
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-itdm-2137.htm
You have to already hold a First class medical to begin with to be considered, and then go through all the evaluations, tests, etc., and continue to meet the rest of their ongoing criteria. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-appendix4-2373.htm
and for student applicants http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-appendix3-2360.htm
Every pilot that I have read about who was able to meet all of the above and get back their First Class was also already flying commercially. The same is true for ATC. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
I feel badly for you and about this happening to you. But illnesses, accidents and diseases happen to almost every one eventually. Sadly, it happened to you early in life. However, it doesn't mean that you cannot fly recreationally. And as someone already suggested, join a flying club for additional enjoyment. But commercially, as I have already stated, I do not believe you will be able to just go to Canada and just obtain a First Class medical.
That does not mean that you cannot train for, seek out education for and be able to obtain a hundred other jobs that are in the aviation field. Would working for Boeing as an engineer not be a worthwhile goal for example or being an airport designer? And look at it this way......you probably would be making more money than most commercial pilots these days, have a better, more stable occupation with more time off, a better schedule and be able to afford a sweet small plane and enjoy flying when you want to. That is a huge plus right there!
There is a wide variety and host of rewarding and very fulfilling careers in aviation available to you. And you can still fly privately and have that special joy. You are still very young and you have many, many choices open to you. Sometimes in life we have to make the best out of our circumstances and situations. That does not mean that we cannot be as happy or satisfied with those second choices. None of us always get what we want in life either. Crap happens and it happens to everyone. The point is to accept that and make the best out of these situations as possible and still be happy.
There is no point in making yourself frustrated and unhappy because you cannot do certain things. At some point you have to accept the truth and move on and make new goals. You don't have to give up. You just have to modify your goals and make a new plan. I wish you my best young man, I really do. Take a breath and explore your options. Life is full of changes and new beginnings. That's not always a bad thing either.
Insulin Treated Applicants with Diabetes Mellitus (ITDM)
This group will include all Type I DM applicants and those Type II DM applicants who require insulin in addition to dietary management.
The major issue in this group, particularly in the Type I (IDDM) applicants, is assessing the risk of hypoglycemia. An attempt has been made based on the opinions of the diabetologists at the conference to classify low risk and high risk ITDM (see Table 1).
It is conceivable that an applicant who meets all the criteria to be classified as low risk could be considered for a Category 4 (ultralight/glider) or a Category 2 (ATC) medical certificate. (See Appendix I & II). All Category 2 applicants should be referred to the Senior Consultant, Operations in Ottawa prior to a medical certification recommendation.
Until data has been gathered from the Category 2 group (ATC) both in Canada and from other jurisdictions, applicants for Category 3 with ITDM will be considered unfit. An exceptionally low risk ITDM who already holds a Category 1, may be considered for medical certification restricted to "as or with co-pilot".
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-itdm-2137.htm
You have to already hold a First class medical to begin with to be considered, and then go through all the evaluations, tests, etc., and continue to meet the rest of their ongoing criteria. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-appendix4-2373.htm
and for student applicants http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp13312-2-diabetes-appendix3-2360.htm
Every pilot that I have read about who was able to meet all of the above and get back their First Class was also already flying commercially. The same is true for ATC. Please correct me if I am wrong here.
I feel badly for you and about this happening to you. But illnesses, accidents and diseases happen to almost every one eventually. Sadly, it happened to you early in life. However, it doesn't mean that you cannot fly recreationally. And as someone already suggested, join a flying club for additional enjoyment. But commercially, as I have already stated, I do not believe you will be able to just go to Canada and just obtain a First Class medical.
That does not mean that you cannot train for, seek out education for and be able to obtain a hundred other jobs that are in the aviation field. Would working for Boeing as an engineer not be a worthwhile goal for example or being an airport designer? And look at it this way......you probably would be making more money than most commercial pilots these days, have a better, more stable occupation with more time off, a better schedule and be able to afford a sweet small plane and enjoy flying when you want to. That is a huge plus right there!
There is a wide variety and host of rewarding and very fulfilling careers in aviation available to you. And you can still fly privately and have that special joy. You are still very young and you have many, many choices open to you. Sometimes in life we have to make the best out of our circumstances and situations. That does not mean that we cannot be as happy or satisfied with those second choices. None of us always get what we want in life either. Crap happens and it happens to everyone. The point is to accept that and make the best out of these situations as possible and still be happy.
There is no point in making yourself frustrated and unhappy because you cannot do certain things. At some point you have to accept the truth and move on and make new goals. You don't have to give up. You just have to modify your goals and make a new plan. I wish you my best young man, I really do. Take a breath and explore your options. Life is full of changes and new beginnings. That's not always a bad thing either.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
OK I'm going to chime in and give my .02 worth and no medical background opinion. FWIW.
I flew with a diabetic FA and she passed out once. Nothing like getting a call from the pax saying the FA is out and to come back. Then have to inform the pax we aren't leaving the cockpit and to do what he can for her. She came around by the time we landed.
The FAA and the General public just aren't willing to take the risk of a pilot having a Diabetes related problem in the cockpit. I am sure most of the time it is fine and yes one person is capable of diverting and flying a perfect jet but how much money is that going to cost the airline if they divert. Plus the Emergency may cause other airlines to divert and lose cash. Hypothetically, what would have been the out come of NWA 573 had one of those pilots passed out during the emergency? What if they had to deal with loss of all hydraulics in that emergency, then it takes two pilots to fight the plane.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Good post. My color vision issues kept me from pursuing aviation. Although I'm cleared to fly now and could get a 1st class medical, at the time I had a waiver, and was told no airline would hire me with that. Changed my entire outlook on the future and went a different direction entirely. Airline flying was my dream, but now with two kids on the way, and a good quality of life with my desk job, and no debt, part of me feels pretty fortunate things went the way they did. You obviously seem motivated, so that will bring you success in whatever you do.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Congrads on the babies!!! Is your wife having twins??? My oldest son's wife is expecting. Just found this out over Thanksgiving. Man, that made our holiday! My wife and sister who had no plans to shop on Black Friday, went out and braved the unwashed masses to buy baby crap. I of course, sat home with a friend, ate leftovers, played some poker and watched a Steven Seagal movie marathon and some MMA matches on tv. lmao I get to be a grandpa again!!! Children change your life forever and in wonderful, unexpected and marvelous ways. You cannot imagine that you will fall so head over heels in love with them the moment you first hold them in your arms. But you do. It's quite the experience.
When you are young, it is so hard to look at the big picture. We simply don't have much life experience. A family and children and quality of life are very, very important. We just cannot see that when we are young, ready to take on the world and full of piss and vinegar. Youngsters also want what they want. That is not how life always plays out. That can be very frustrating, but it is also an adventure to survive the curve balls that are thrown your way. We also don't realize that sometimes horrible situations can open new doors to better opportunities that we never dreamed of and that many things eventually sort themselves out and work out for the better. Attitude, time and experience will solve most of this. There are so many possibilities in life to explore if we are open to do just that. We never have to be stuck or defeated. There is always a new road and a different path. You are proof of just that.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Yes, she is pregnant with twins - thanks for the congrats! We're going through a bit of stress at the moment, as the 12-week screen for down syndrome came back as high risk for one of our babies. We've all of a sudden found ourselves having to make a lot of "what if" decisions that we never pondered before. But hopefully it's just a scare, and we'll move on. And if it isn't, we'll meet those challenges head on as well. Congrats to your son and his wife!
FlyByWire22
Well-Known Member
Come on, of course you can fly an airliner single pilot! Ask any of the ex-pat Captains flying in China. I kid I kid... but in all seriousness, if you want it that badly; go to Canada and live your dream. Sounds like they may be a bit more lenient than the FAA.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
The rules for diabetics are woefully out dated. Of course, few here have the qualifications to speak intelligently about the relative safety of diabetics flying.
One of my employees is diabetic, and he developed type one in his late 20s as an FO. He currently cannot hold a second class. We have discussed this topic at length, and there is no reason other than tradition that he cannot hold a first class medical.
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
I think that's wonderful. You are a lucky man. Always remember that. A good woman-the right woman and kids make all the difference in our life's bumpy journey. I am on my second go around. I chose right at least this time. I hope that it all works out for the both of you. This must be a little scarey for sure. Hopefully, everything will be fine. But, as you said, you will deal with it together. That is all that matters. We make the best of what life sends our way. My son is experiencing the new dad roller coaster of "oh boy I am going to be a father, to what the hell have I done, am I ready, yikes, and gee this is great" right now. lol We had a long talk about this. In the end you are never realy "ready" for some things. You just take the plunge and do it. I told him to go paint a spare bedroom and get ready to be building baby furniture. A lot of baby furniture. It's amazing to me how much crap that babies need! And you have that in doubles now! My wife was already saying something about that baby crap that we would need to buy for babysitting and overnighters. I said, geez can't they just bring their own stuff over? Then I got "the look". I kept quiet after that and retreated back to my den with my dog. Life teaches us many wise things. lol Again, I am happy for the both of you. I love babies. Everything about them is a surprise and makes you smile. Everything they do just melts your heart. So many possibilities and so much joy. When is she due? Keep us posted.
