Two Pilots Will Attempt To Swap Planes In Mid-Air This Weekend

[knot4u]

how about, anyone wearing a hat that way.

When I was a kid my parents would only spring for YMCA baseball versus actual little league. Hats were one size fits all and plenty of prepubescent kids running around with flat billed hats was pretty common. My brother was our pitcher, I played left field.

 

[knot4u]

When I was a kid my parents would only spring for YMCA baseball versus actual little league. Hats were one size fits all and plenty of prepubescent kids running around with flat billed hats was pretty common. My brother was our pitcher, I played left field.

Thinking about that brought up an old memory, my brother was pitching and someone hit towards right field with a runner on second, I ran in to back up third base as the kid at third base had shifted towards home and as the runner came by he bit me on my nose badly enough to draw blood. He was kicked out of the league but I still don't understand why he did it at all, I didn't have the ball and I wasn't going to tackle him. Oh well.

 

[CFI A&P]

Personally I’m a little conflicted on this one. It’s never good to see a perfectly good airplane get destroyed, however they’re most likely clapped-out former jump birds anyway. We’re not talking about trashing the Spirit Of St Louis & Gerry Mock’s Spirit of Columbus.

On the other hand, what was happening in aviation during the last ‘20s? (1920s). Barnstorming and pushing limits of flight with modern technology. So this is nothing new.

 

[fholbert]

Won't take long to part out. Wheel bearings and a tail strobe.

I'm not sure about the tail strobe

 

[MikeD]

From the feds, I think this is stupid nonsense, they have certainly taken the precautions necessary…

but from them, I’m still left with, God, wtf, why?

not necessarily. These guys weren’t exactly in the complete middle of nowhere. They were just west of the town of Eloy, AZ and just south of both Arizona City and Casa Grande, just west of an active airway and Interstate 10. This wasn’t exactly the Mojave desert or the Gila Bend bombing range. Some preparations , but some glaring oversights also.

Not really the place for uncontrolled pilotless aircraft, tooling through the air with no ability to see and avoid anything. Had one of these planes recovered somehow and flew along by itself pilotless, to crash into some populated area, would be a big risk.

Their rationale for wanting exemptions? Because they’d already made media contacts and commitments. That’s their problem for doing that before securing exemptions. Not the FAAs problem.

Personally I’m a little conflicted on this one. It’s never good to see a perfectly good airplane get destroyed, however they’re most likely clapped-out former jump birds anyway. We’re not talking about trashing the Spirit Of St Louis & Gerry Mock’s Spirit of Columbus.

On the other hand, what was happening in aviation during the last ‘20s? (1920s). Barnstorming and pushing limits of flight with modern technology. So this is nothing new.

Barnstormers of the 1920s were doing stuff that was largely a hazard to themselves if it went bad, not necessarily a hazard to other aircraft and persons on the ground. Hence the FAAs concern. I mean, go do this in the Mojave desert or in some other middle of nowhere area. But no, that wouldn’t be convenient for them.

 

[fholbert]

not necessarily. These guys weren’t exactly in the complete middle of nowhere. They were just west of the town of Eloy, AZ and just south of both Arizona City and Casa Grande, just west of an active airway and Interstate 10. This wasn’t exactly the Mojave desert or the Gila Bend bombing range. Some predications, but some glaring oversights also.

That’s f***ing nuts. I had assumed they were inside restricted airspace or a TFR. These guys were operating without any caution for the general public.

 

[Box hauler]

IMO, this seems a little odd for Red Bull. Obviously they do these types of stunts but they usually seem much more calculated and professional.

 

[dustoff17]

Thinking about that brought up an old memory, my brother was pitching and someone hit towards right field with a runner on second, I ran in to back up third base as the kid at third base had shifted towards home and as the runner came by he bit me on my nose badly enough to draw blood. He was kicked out of the league but I still don't understand why he did it at all, I didn't have the ball and I wasn't going to tackle him. Oh well.

Two things:
ONE: What in the world does THIS have to do with anything aviation related? (unless you’re going to tell another “There I was” story about how you repaired your own nose with nothing more than a baseball cleat)
and
TWO: The runner went past you at third base and ”BIT” you on the nose as he ran by? That kid’s got skills!

 

[pwttogfk]

IMO, this seems a little odd for Red Bull. Obviously they do these types of stunts but they usually seem much more calculated and professional.

So…the jump operation running this stunt is from the airport just south of where I learned to fly. Google Skydive Kapowsin and I think it’s pretty clear this operation is on brand for them. And that’s all I have to say about that.

 

[CFI A&P]

not necessarily. These guys weren’t exactly in the complete middle of nowhere. They were just west of the town of Eloy, AZ and just south of both Arizona City and Casa Grande, just west of an active airway and Interstate 10. This wasn’t exactly the Mojave desert or the Gila Bend bombing range. Some predications, but some glaring oversights also.

Not really the place for uncontrolled pilotless aircraft, tooling through the air with no ability to see and avoid anything. Had one of these planes recovered somehow and flew along by itself pilotless, to crash into some populated area, would be a big risk.

Their rationale for wanting exemptions? Because they’d already made media contacts and commitments. That’s their problem for doing that before securing exemptions. Not the FAAs problem.




Barnstormers of the 1920s were doing stuff that was largely a hazard to themselves if it went bad, not necessarily a hazard to other aircraft and persons on the ground. Hence the FAAs concern. I mean, go do this in the Mojave desert or in some other middle of nowhere area. But no, that wouldn’t be convenient for them.

While I agree that this was purely for entertainment/ shock value and less about the technology behind an auto-pilot that can maintain a nose dive or the airbrake, etc... So I can't be surprised with the Administrator's position, but I am curious as to how the operation proceeded even after being notified that their waiver was denied. Did RedBull receive notice and not tell the crews or did the crews know and still proceed...

I guess one could compare the entertainment versus risk value of this to something like Reno. For the most part Reno has gone well, with some accidents along the way, including a significant crash that killed 10 spectators and scores of injuries in 2011. Applying the same risk versus reward analysis to barnstorming, those events could, and sometimes did go sideways, but the "blast radius" of a Jenny at 60mph is miniscule compared to the potential impact radius of these unmanned Skylanes while in their vertical profiles, so I can understand why the Administrator declined this one in the interest of public safety.

 

[MikeD]

That’s f***ing nuts. I had assumed they were inside restricted airspace or a TFR. These guys were operating without any caution for the general public.

Even a TFR would only protect other aircraft. It wouldn’t have any protection to the ground geography of nearby farms, towns, interstate, and even a city a little further north. They just used the same open airspace that Skydive AZ at Eloy uses for regular parachute activities. In fact, the Sawtooth DZ field they departed from, is owned by same. I would have thought they would have launched from Red Bull airfield further southwest and done this further west, but the Indian tribe might not have appreciated that being done over their land. Nearest Restricted airspace would’ve been R-2310 to the east/northeast by about 30 miles, which is normally inactive as its not used as an arty range anymore.

While I agree that this was purely for entertainment/ shock value and less about the technology behind an auto-pilot that can maintain a nose dive or the airbrake, etc... So I can't be surprised with the Administrator's position, but I am curious as to how the operation proceeded even after being notified that their waiver was denied. Did RedBull receive notice and not tell the crews or did the crews know and still proceed...

I guess one could compare the entertainment versus risk value of this to something like Reno. For the most part Reno has gone well, with some accidents along the way, including a significant crash that killed 10 spectators and scores of injuries in 2011. Applying the same risk versus reward analysis to barnstorming, those events could, and sometimes did go sideways, but the "blast radius" of a Jenny at 60mph is miniscule compared to the potential impact radius of these unmanned Skylanes while in their vertical profiles, so I can understand why the Administrator declined this one in the interest of public safety.

My assumption only is that Red Bull was probably just the sponsor logo, and that these two guys were the pilots doing all the FAA coordination. They knew they got denied, but went ahead anyway……probably assuring that all is well, or that forgiveness is better than permission. But a willful violation, with having performed a stunt that permission had been specifically denied for, is going to be tough to survive. If dipstick who bailed out of his own plane……something he just did on his own, got in the trouble he did for that. These guys are going to be worse off.

 

[USMCmech]

 

[MikeD]

Pretty good analysis, the only part I disagree with is this whole notion people have of “they took every precaution”, when clearly they did not, as I’ve cited. They’re just lucky nothing more than a mashed 182 is all they ended up with damage wise.

 

[stroboli62]

That was a buddy's airplane. He did a great job

Yes yes he did

I have the collision as my screen saver and some of my Zoom backgrounds for my virtual meetings with emergency managers...you know those guys who request aircraft support, very few fly, and even fewer have seen the likes of that picture

Super Vikings fuuuureverrrrrr

 

[Wardogg]

Some people never learn to keep their mouth shut. Does he honestly think doing this will help his case?

Red Bull Plane Swap Pilot Appears to Post Instagram Confession - FLYING Magazine

Luke Aikins, the lead pilot for the Red Bull Plane Swap stunt that streamed live last Sunday on Hulu, has apparently posted a message on his Instagram page in which he takes responsibility for continuing with the event without permission from the FAA. In the Instagram statement, Aikins says he...

www.flyingmag.com

 

[mwflyer]

Some people never learn to keep their mouth shut. Does he honestly think doing this will help his case?

Red Bull Plane Swap Pilot Appears to Post Instagram Confession - FLYING Magazine

Luke Aikins, the lead pilot for the Red Bull Plane Swap stunt that streamed live last Sunday on Hulu, has apparently posted a message on his Instagram page in which he takes responsibility for continuing with the event without permission from the FAA. In the Instagram statement, Aikins says he...

www.flyingmag.com

He must. At this point, I’m sure he’s not making any statements without approval from his legal team.

 

[Wardogg]

Trevor set the precedent.

FAA grounds pilots involved in failed pilot switch stunt | CNN

The Federal Aviation Administration has issued emergency orders grounding both pilots involved in last month's botched and "unauthorized" Red Bull plane swap stunt.

www.cnn.com

 

[MikeD]

Trevor set the precedent.

FAA grounds pilots involved in failed pilot switch stunt | CNN

The Federal Aviation Administration has issued emergency orders grounding both pilots involved in last month's botched and "unauthorized" Red Bull plane swap stunt.

www.cnn.com

those two are lucky there was nothing more than just one smashed 182 in the desert 9 miles west of I-10 and south of Arizona City/Casa Grande.

 

[Minuteman]

I'm just thinking how this could have gone down with different decision-making. Play-up the event, promote lots of "which way would a C182 wear pants" Redditry. Then when word comes down two days before (because??) to shut it down, they get everyone all mad at the FAA and going at them with internet lawyering about how its out in the desert and how they're gonna call-in Inhofe. And the FAA gets a good grinding from a 21st century tyranny of the noisy. Maybe a legislator decides to get their name out there and pull the Administrator in front of the Aviation subcommittee.

And no laws get broken, maybe they get to do the stunt a little later, and plenty of that manna for marketing types still flows.

Or they see if Mexico is interested in the event.

Edit: Now Red Bull just looks like a bunch of dufus carnies.

 

[knot4u]

They should've landed on a treadmill.