Two emergencies at the same time at PHX

[MikeD]

From the other day, Two AA Airbus jets with inflight emergencies at the same time at PHX, AA2006 arriving with a flap problem and AA 1038 departing and returning with an oil pressure issue on one engine.

Interesting that AA2006 correctly relays their remaining fuel in time when queried by ATC, while AA1038 incorrectly relays it in pounds when queried for their fuel remaining.

When you hear Chief 1 (the fire commander), you can tell that airport FDs don’t normally train for two or more simultaneous emergencies to occur at once. Training of airport fire crews is to operate as a singular team, versus operating as separate entities, and tactics/techniques/procedures reflect same.; hence the Fire Chief’s request about the runways, if possible.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cz4Smcmb-Co&t=182s

 

[///AMG]

Did they brief "send the worst hurt bird home first" in their coordination brief?

 

[Bob Ridpath]

From the other day, Two AA Airbus jets with inflight emergencies at the same time at PHX, AA2006 arriving with a flap problem and AA 1038 departing and returning with an oil pressure issue on one engine.

Interesting that AA2006 correctly relays their remaining fuel in time when queried by ATC, while AA1038 incorrectly relays it in pounds when queried for their fuel remaining.

When you hear Chief 1 (the fire commander), you can tell that airport FDs don’t normally train for two or more simultaneous emergencies to occur at once. Training of airport fire crews is to operate as a singular team, versus operating as separate entities, and tactics/techniques/procedures reflect same.; hence the Fire Chief’s request about the runways, if possible.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cz4Smcmb-Co&t=182s

Happy endings are always the best!

 

[JordanD]

From the other day, Two AA Airbus jets with inflight emergencies at the same time at PHX, AA2006 arriving with a flap problem and AA 1038 departing and returning with an oil pressure issue on one engine.

Interesting that AA2006 correctly relays their remaining fuel in time when queried by ATC, while AA1038 incorrectly relays it in pounds when queried for their fuel remaining.

When you hear Chief 1 (the fire commander), you can tell that airport FDs don’t normally train for two or more simultaneous emergencies to occur at once. Training of airport fire crews is to operate as a singular team, versus operating as separate entities, and tactics/techniques/procedures reflect same.; hence the Fire Chief’s request about the runways, if possible.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cz4Smcmb-Co&t=182s

I know fuel in time is the proper format, but why is that? Fuel burn per hour is going to vary wildly and it seems like irrelevant information if it’s burning outside of the aircraft.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Interesting that AA2006 correctly relays their remaining fuel in time when queried by ATC, while AA1038 incorrectly relays it in pounds when queried for their fuel remaining.

I know fuel in time is the proper format, but why is that? Fuel burn per hour is going to vary wildly and it seems like irrelevant information if it’s burning outside of the aircraft.

While the .65 only says it’s required to get fuel remaining in minutes, in the terminal environment that info is nearly useless. If I get fuel in min, tower always comes back and asks for it in pounds cause ARFF asks for it. Only time min matters to me is if you’re a fuel emergency. In the enroute environment where one may be quite far away from a suitable airport fuel in minutes is much more useful.

 

[MikeD]

While the .65 only says it’s required to get fuel remaining in minutes, in the terminal environment that info is nearly useless. If I get fuel in min, tower always comes back and asks for it in pounds cause ARFF asks for it. Only time min matters to me is if you’re a fuel emergency. In the enroute environment where one may be quite far away from a suitable airport fuel in minutes is much more useful.

As an ARFF guy personally, I don’t really care how much fuel in pounds is onboard, in terms of, it doesn’t change my tactics of what I’m going to either do, or be able to do, firefighting-wise, if the situation came to it. I always assume there’s going to be fuel present, which is already accounted for in a general planning sense on my end regards tactics. I do know some guys ask for it, but knowing that info doesn’t change anything, as the number (which you won’t know at their landing time anyway) doesn’t move a barometer one way or another.

I do like to know when to expect the aircraft for landing, if it’s an aircraft where the crew is working a problem while airborne. What kind of timeframe am I working under, do I have time to request or coordinate any additional resources, etc. To me personally, the souls onboard is the more important piece of information, in terms of what I may be dealing with were something to go south.

 

[roundout]

The FOM at my company specifies to tell fuel remaining in minutes to ATC and pounds to ARFF.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I remember one time in the af a newly checked out guy was working an emergency. Asks for fuel in min. Pilot responds 1 hour. FNG says “I said say fuel in minutes. Exasperated pilot yells SIXTY! Good times.

 

[MikeD]

I remember one time in the af a newly checked out guy was working an emergency. Asks for fuel in min. Pilot responds 1 hour. FNG says “I said say fuel in minutes. Exasperated pilot yells SIXTY! Good times.

The reg does say minutes, lol, but yeah….c’mon man!

 

[CFI A&P]

I know fuel in time is the proper format, but why is that? Fuel burn per hour is going to vary wildly and it seems like irrelevant information if it’s burning outside of the aircraft.

By using fuel in time with ATC, it is a statement of there will be a crash to deal with if they don’t land in X minutes. Whereas pounds is helpful to determine how big the fire going to be if this doesn’t end well.

 

[NovemberEcho]

By using fuel in time with ATC, it is a statement of there will be a crash to deal with if they don’t land in X minutes. Whereas pounds is helpful to determine how big the fire going to be if this doesn’t end well.

It is also helpful in finding suitable airports within range

 

[trafficinsight]

Always tell 'em 15 minutes, it's believable.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Did 1038 shut down an engine?

Which is more serious, here?

 

[CFI A&P]

It is also helpful in finding suitable airports within range

Divert? Just put it in the Hudson.

 

[///AMG]

As an ARFF guy personally, I don’t really care how much fuel in pounds is onboard, in terms of, it doesn’t change my tactics of what I’m going to either do, or be able to do, firefighting-wise, if the situation came to it. I always assume there’s going to be fuel present, which is already accounted for in a general planning sense on my end regards tactics. I do know some guys ask for it, but knowing that info doesn’t change anything, as the number (which you won’t know at their landing time anyway) doesn’t move a barometer one way or another.

I do like to know when to expect the aircraft for landing, if it’s an aircraft where the crew is working a problem while airborne. What kind of timeframe am I working under, do I have time to request or coordinate any additional resources, etc. To me personally, the souls onboard is the more important piece of information, in terms of what I may be dealing with were something to go south.

Do you guys get info on hazmat aboard? Or does that have to come from the emergency aircraft directly? I feel like I learned this at one point, and then obviously dumped it

 

[MikeD]

Do you guys get info on hazmat aboard? Or does that have to come from the emergency aircraft directly? I feel like I learned this at one point, and then obviously dumped it

Depend on getting it from the aircraft. If it’s a cargo aircraft, we’ll generally query ATC to inquire. And if there is a significant amount of time before the arrival of the emergency aircraft, can contact their flight operations and gain that information that way.

Nothing can be taken for granted, really. For unannounced emergencies….those where a crash happens with no prior warning…..there can be many surprises. Fedex 647, an MD-10, it wasn’t expected that there were 5 additional persons onboard deadheading in addition to the flight crew.

But with regards to HAZMAT, that just adds to the hassle of the emergency, especially if the emergency onboard is the HAZMAT being carried…..leak, exposure, fumes, fire, etc. HAZMAT can be like an aerial train derailment coming to the ground, in worst case scenario.

 

[form810]

From the other day, Two AA Airbus jets with inflight emergencies at the same time at PHX, AA2006 arriving with a flap problem and AA 1038 departing and returning with an oil pressure issue on one engine.

Interesting that AA2006 correctly relays their remaining fuel in time when queried by ATC, while AA1038 incorrectly relays it in pounds when queried for their fuel remaining.

When you hear Chief 1 (the fire commander), you can tell that airport FDs don’t normally train for two or more simultaneous emergencies to occur at once. Training of airport fire crews is to operate as a singular team, versus operating as separate entities, and tactics/techniques/procedures reflect same.; hence the Fire Chief’s request about the runways, if possible.

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cz4Smcmb-Co&t=182s

Given the broken state of damned near everything these days, I would highly recommend AARFs institute multiple-emergency training evolutions as SOP.

 

[azmedic]

Given the broken state of damned near everything these days, I would highly recommend AARFs institute multiple-emergency training evolutions as SOP.

One thing Phoenix FD does correctly (some might question their EMS care…) is train and develop tactics for putting wet stuff on the red stuff. Guarantee this event will likely be a training topic in the short term


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[MikeD]

One thing Phoenix FD does correctly (some might question their EMS care…) is train and develop tactics for putting wet stuff on the red stuff. Guarantee this event will likely be a training topic in the short term

Definitely. Especially when Bruno was in charge.

Yeah, their EMS…..is competing with TFD EMS for how many ALS they can kick off as BLS so AMR has to do the transport and not them.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I can’t read this title without thinking of Office Space